Dreamforce 2024 | Chris Shutts | Logik.io

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Christopher Shutts

Co-Founder & CEO

Logik.io

play_circle_outline CPQ market evolution in tech and business services over the last 20 years

play_circle_outline Adaptation to changing B2B buying behavior with personalized experiences and solutions.

play_circle_outline Enhancing Sales Efficiency: AI Benefits for Reps with SmartPredict Technology

play_circle_outline Performance optimization key for instant gratification and buyer engagement

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Chris Shutts | Logik.io

Christopher Shutts

Co-Founder & CEO Logik.io

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>> Hello and welcome back to day two of Dreamforce where we're, again, live from the NYSE Studio that we've built just outside the Moscone Center. We're unpacking everything that's going on and again, if you know Salesforce and you know where it came from with Sales Cloud being one of the biggest things, you know that pricing and getting quotes out can sometimes be a hassle, but that's what we're going to dig into is how do you take away that complexity and really understand how to get something out with CPQ? If you know what you're talking about, you know what CPQ is. And we're going to dig a little bit deeper in here. We have Chris Shutts, who's the co-founder and CEO of Logik.io, and he's going to help us unpack this. Welcome on board, Chris.

>> Yeah. Thanks, Rob.

>> So, I think one of the things is you've been around this industry for a while. I've been a consumer of this multiple times and I know the complexity that goes into this. Help us understand how CPQ market has evolved over the last 20 years or so.

>> Yeah, it's a good question, Rob. And I think one of the challenges it really hasn't. CPQ has been around for a while, configure price quote. It's a really big business problem. Generally, companies that have more complex products and services, it's a bigger problem and harder to solve, especially in tech and business services and software manufacturing. Those are kind of key verticals for CPQ. The problem is a lot of the solutions in the market have been these monoliths that have sort of evolved in the early 2000s. My previous company, BigMachines, is one of those solutions which has a good share of the market. And the problem is that modern selling has really changed a lot. So, if you look at the way you consume products, I consume products, we have very high expectations as a consumer and those expectations are starting to actually move into the way we interact with business applications. And so, what that means is the old days of a CPQ app being challenging UI, slow performance, not composable, no AI, those drawbacks are becoming more and more prevalent as the market moves forward. And that's one of the reasons why we started Logik.io.

>> Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense in the fact that, again, the complexity of selling has somewhat increased, somewhat simplified, but it's different routes to market and things of that nature, which really trying to build out a configure price quote tool in get it lined up for yourself has to be a challenge. So, how is AI playing a role in this these days?

>> Yeah, it's interesting and I think AI is a gold mine for CPQ. And so, we look at it in two big buckets. So, one is how do you make it easier for the salesperson with AI? And how do you make it easier for the admin that has to maintain CPQ day to day with AI? In the salesperson bucket, one of the things we're doing at Logik.io is we have a technology we call SmartPredict. And if you think about a sales rep, let's say, direct sales rep, maybe you sell X-ray machines to hospitals. So, there might be like 200 options on an X-Ray machine. If you're a sales rep and you start answering those questions in Logik.io, the AI engine will see where you're headed and it will automatically recommend the other 150 answers. Now, for a lot of cases, if you get like a late-stage deal and the quotes got to be absolutely accurate, you'll go back and you'll look at what the AI engine did and maybe make some changes. But where SmartPredict is really interesting is if you think about top of funnel where you have lots of deals with low probability, you want your reps to be able to cover as many deals as they can very quickly. And so, SmartPredict could do where a rep might handle a hundred quotes a day, now they can maybe do 500 with AI, which is really interesting piece of it. The other thing we've done is we've made it so that you can take and have a conversation with the configurator, which is actually what sales reps like to do. When they're on the road or when they're getting a coffee or whatever, they can actually talk to the configurator and say, "Create a proposal for an X-ray machine for me, for hospital A in Lancaster. And they have 220 volts, they have a 20-by-20 room, they have this amount of lead shielding. Send me back the sales bill of material.' And then what Logik.io does is it'll run using our large language models and actually send the quote line items and pricing back to the rep automatically. So, it's a really cool productivity piece. The other thing with SmartPredict that's really interesting is we do a lot of deals where using our composability, customers put our configuration in their CPQ tool like Salesforce, which is a lot of our deals, but they also take the same CPQ rules engine and they put it in e-commerce experience. So, if you think about that, you can maintain your rules in one place and you can sell direct or you can do self-service on the internet, or you can use the configurator as a lead gen tool. So, a lot of our customers buy our tech because they want to put their configurator online and use it as lead gen. And so, it's just like if you go out and buy a new car, the first thing you do is you go online for the manufacturer and you configure the Mercedes or whatever before you even step foot into a dealer. Well, a lot of B2B buyers are doing that now with technology and our configurator, they can put it on their corporate website and actually do that self-discovery, and SmartPredict actually helps a lot with that too.

>> Is this that whole composability aspect of it where... I mean, because when I look at it, like you said, there's different routes to market, there's different ways that you want to entice people into your product set, be it B2C or B2B or what have you. Is this where composability comes in and how the different, I guess you could say features of the products that are exposed?

>> Yeah, exactly. And that's why it's so important and that's part of that new buyer persona that's emerging from our B2C buying behavior into B2B. We do a lot of B2C stuff too, but B2B is primarily a lot of these complex transactions. And what the buyers want do is they want to do it on their terms, on their channel. And a lot of these deals will actually cross through several different channels to get them done. So, we have a customer, Keysight Technologies here in the Bay Area. A really cool Fortune 1000 high-tech manufacturer, and they bought our tech because they sell very high-end diagnostic equipment, oscilloscopes. They have a huge defense business. And a lot of their buyers actually want to go online and do discovery. And so, they do that on their website. That becomes a configuration in Logik.io. And then, behind the scenes we send that into their inside sales team, which is a different channel, and then they follow up with the customer and get the deal done, and composability is critical for that. So, we have customers that put it into service scenarios in addition to e-commerce and CPQ, and that's a huge value prop for us.

>> Yeah, I mean I think that a lot of people have gotten used to the instant gratification that the Amazons and all of the different marketplaces have brought. Have you seen that be really a focal point for your customer saying, "Hey, this is what I'm trying to do is give them that B2C type experience in the B2B world," because they're expecting it now? They want to be able to do their discovery on their own. They want to be able to do this, and, "Oh, by the way, it shortcuts it for my SDRs and my ISRs and the sales reps that I have out there."

>> Yeah, exactly. And one of the key things you need to be able to do that is you need to have amazing performance. So, what I tell a lot of customers and prospects, if Amazon took three seconds to give you an answer, we would probably all stop using Amazon to buy things. And so, one of the key factors is performance. So, when we started Logik.io, we knew we had to figure out the performance problem because that has been a key Achilles' heel of all CPQ tools to date. So, situations where you hear stories about reps waiting like five seconds, 10 seconds, and you're like, "Well, it's only five seconds, but if I'm a rep and I have to update the page 25 times to get a deal done, it's a very frustrating experience." And if you start talking about this concept of digital self-discovery and self-service, then wait times are just a complete nonstarter. And so, we put a lot of R&D into our rules engine, so there's no update button, there's no save button, there's no spinning wheel while you're waiting for it to calculate. You could have thousands of options, thousands of rules. And the big thing with Logik.io is it still behaves like Amazon. You can ask it very complex questions and it'll get back to you. And what I tell a lot of prospects, it's actually like a video game the way you interact with it. And you're like, "Well, that's cool," and people like that, but it actually changes the buying behavior. So, if you have unbelievable video game-like performance, it actually changes the way people think about your products and they'll actually make a lot more selections and a lot more discovery, which then gets them closer to doing a deal with you long-term. So, it actually has tremendous value from a long-term conversion standpoint.

>> So, I think I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about the fact that, again, one of my experiences with CPQ was that we tried out several different CPQs. And what we found was that the first one we tried, it was like we were going to have to go spend a million dollars in configuration with a consultancy and try to get it up and running. We went to another one, it didn't really fit our size company. We were a small company at the time, 5,000 customers and things of that nature. How do you see customers... You talked about getting rid of the monolithic legacy-type stuff, where you've been before. How do you really help them get started? What's the time to value that they can expect? How does it tie into Salesforce for that matter?

>> Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question actually. And 5,000 customers sounds like a pretty good business to me.

>> Yeah, it was a good business. They got acquired, so not a bad thing.

>> Yeah, the other benefit of composability is you don't have to do a million dollar 12-month project. And what I find is that especially here in the Bay Area, a lot of tech companies, they just don't do one-year projects anymore. I'm giving a talk today with a really cool tech company, Fortune 1000 company, and we signed with them and their CIO said, "We're doing a three-month project." And everyone's like, "That's not possible." And they're like, "Nope, give me something in three months." And we did it, which we love. We love customers who like to go fast, that's awesome. But what's cool about composability is you can still just use the technology where you need it to solve your business problem versus do a complete rip out of this gigantic concrete monolith, so to speak. And so, a lot of customers like it if they have a bunch of products, but there's only one product that's really hard to sell. Sometimes we just do a configurator for that, and it's a one-month, two-month project. And then we do a lot of deals with Salesforce where it's a complete re-engineering of the front end of their business and those are longer projects, but what I'm finding is companies now like to just use it where they need it, and then they like to do these sprints. So, now this company, I mentioned a three-month project, they've done three more three month projects to really transform their business. And now, they're doing another project right now that's led by the CEO himself, and it's a lot more fun to do projects like that.

>> Yeah, getting bite-sized chunks, seeing success continuing on, because again, we had, and I owned the product at the time, so I was responsible for basically the SKU list that was going into CPQ, and you started to look at it, and we were evolving our business as rapidly as we were getting CPQ put in. And we were bringing on new partners where we had another set of SKUs that had to go to the partner. What we found was that the value of CPQ is we actually pivoted and started with the partner-led one because we were getting more value. And what they found is that we could get the quotes out faster than they could, so we weren't adding time to their quoting because it would go through the... Do you see these multi-level channels and ways to market as pretty normal with the clients you're working with today?

>> Yeah, yeah, we do. We see it a lot. And it is somewhat aligned by vertical, as you'd expect. So, a lot of tech businesses, they'll have a multi-tier channel with VARs, distributors, resellers, and they all interact with each other, and that adds a ton of typically workflow and pricing complexity, which can be a challenge. I mean, the easiest use case from an adoption standpoint is a company that just has direct sales because they can just aggregate the team, figure it out, do the design, take it to market. And then, we work with manufacturing companies where it's all distribution. And then, when you get into some of the off-highway or automotive stuff, then you get dealers, which is kind of a whole different experience. In those cases, you kind of create these little retail sites for them, because some of these dealers can be quite large businesses and they'll actually take the composability, they'll put our configurator in their website, which is also kind of a cool benefit for them.

>> Have you seen people in the marketplaces actually trying to build CPQ into the marketplace experience as well?

>> Yeah, a little bit. It's not super highly adopted, but we're actually getting more and more marketplace-type inquiries. So, honestly, I'm not really sure what's going on with that because it seems like everything's made a full 360, because that was back in 2000 when we actually started my previous CPQ company. We actually started it as a marketplace configuration engine, and then all the marketplaces kind of fizzled, if you remember, in early 2000. But it seems like maybe they're making a comeback.

>> I think they are. I think are and I think there's a lot going on in various different industries where the marketplaces are consolidating, and I think a lot of that has to do with being able to do comparisons and people looking and quickly trying to evaluate. I think, again, that's where recommendations and other stuff that come in. So, how do you see your customers? How do they recommend you? Is that how you get a lot of your businesses through those recommendations and things of that nature? Or do they just come find you at Dreamforce? Or how do you see this?

>> Well, yeah, I mean, we do get customer recommendations. We're very aggressive with customer success, so we take a lot of NPS scores constantly. Our NPS is 54, which actually is quite good for enterprise software. I think it's a little bit above Salesforce, but below Apple. So, we're very proud of that. And we actually allow customers to give us NPS scores any time inside the app, and those all get circulated to our management team. And then every week we look through all those scores and anyone that's a detractor, I personally reach out to them and find out what we can do to make them a promoter. So, that is a good bit of referral. But obviously, Dreamforce is huge for us. So, we have actually two booths here this year, and we invest a lot in the Salesforce relationship. It's a huge part of our business. So, we do shows. We also do a lot of outbounding into these various verticals because the way we look at the market is if you don't follow this trend in buying behavior, where B2B buying customers want to do it on their time and they want to do it their way, we feel like a lot of companies are going to get marginalized.

>> Totally agree. So, what are you looking forward to this week at Dreamforce?

>> Looking forward to Friday.

>> I think we all are. Well, I want to welcome you onboard and thanks for coming on today. I think, again, Chris, I'm passionate about this myself because I've been on the other side of it, and I think you can see that simplifying it. And I think definitely your point on AI, this is place where I would expect AI could help massively, especially upleveling some of those salespeople, so that they can be more accurate, quicker, more efficient. So, good stuff.

>> Yeah, AI is a goldmine for the users and the admins that have to maintain these systems day in and day out, so we're really excited. Thanks for your time, Rob.

>> Yeah. Thanks, Chris. And thank you for watching this episode from Dreamforce where we're headquartered out at the NYSE's offices. We'll be back with more. So, stay tuned and we'll be right back.

Chris Shutts | Logik.io

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>> Hello and welcome back to day two of Dreamforce where we're, again, live from the NYSE Studio that we've built just outside the Moscone Center. We're unpacking everything that's going on and again, if you know Salesforce and you know where it came from with Sales Cloud being one of the biggest things, you know that pricing and getting quotes out can sometimes be a hassle, but that's what we're going to dig into is how do you take away that complexity and really understand how to get something out with CPQ? If you know what you're talking about, you know what CPQ is. And we're going to dig a little bit deeper in here. We have Chris Shutts, who's the co-founder and CEO of Logik.io, and he's going to help us unpack this. Welcome on board, Chris.

>> Yeah. Thanks, Rob.

>> So, I think one of the things is you've been around this industry for a while. I've been a consumer of this multiple times and I know the complexity that goes into this. Help us understand how CPQ market has evolved over the last 20 years or so.

>> Yeah, it's a good question, Rob. And I think one of the challenges it really hasn't. CPQ has been around for a while, configure price quote. It's a really big business problem. Generally, companies that have more complex products and services, it's a bigger problem and harder to solve, especially in tech and business services and software manufacturing. Those are kind of key verticals for CPQ. The problem is a lot of the solutions in the market have been these monoliths that have sort of evolved in the early 2000s. My previous company, BigMachines, is one of those solutions which has a good share of the market. And the problem is that modern selling has really changed a lot. So, if you look at the way you consume products, I consume products, we have very high expectations as a consumer and those expectations are starting to actually move into the way we interact with business applications. And so, what that means is the old days of a CPQ app being challenging UI, slow performance, not composable, no AI, those drawbacks are becoming more and more prevalent as the market moves forward. And that's one of the reasons why we started Logik.io.

>> Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense in the fact that, again, the complexity of selling has somewhat increased, somewhat simplified, but it's different routes to market and things of that nature, which really trying to build out a configure price quote tool in get it lined up for yourself has to be a challenge. So, how is AI playing a role in this these days?

>> Yeah, it's interesting and I think AI is a gold mine for CPQ. And so, we look at it in two big buckets. So, one is how do you make it easier for the salesperson with AI? And how do you make it easier for the admin that has to maintain CPQ day to day with AI? In the salesperson bucket, one of the things we're doing at Logik.io is we have a technology we call SmartPredict. And if you think about a sales rep, let's say, direct sales rep, maybe you sell X-ray machines to hospitals. So, there might be like 200 options on an X-Ray machine. If you're a sales rep and you start answering those questions in Logik.io, the AI engine will see where you're headed and it will automatically recommend the other 150 answers. Now, for a lot of cases, if you get like a late-stage deal and the quotes got to be absolutely accurate, you'll go back and you'll look at what the AI engine did and maybe make some changes. But where SmartPredict is really interesting is if you think about top of funnel where you have lots of deals with low probability, you want your reps to be able to cover as many deals as they can very quickly. And so, SmartPredict could do where a rep might handle a hundred quotes a day, now they can maybe do 500 with AI, which is really interesting piece of it. The other thing we've done is we've made it so that you can take and have a conversation with the configurator, which is actually what sales reps like to do. When they're on the road or when they're getting a coffee or whatever, they can actually talk to the configurator and say, "Create a proposal for an X-ray machine for me, for hospital A in Lancaster. And they have 220 volts, they have a 20-by-20 room, they have this amount of lead shielding. Send me back the sales bill of material.' And then what Logik.io does is it'll run using our large language models and actually send the quote line items and pricing back to the rep automatically. So, it's a really cool productivity piece. The other thing with SmartPredict that's really interesting is we do a lot of deals where using our composability, customers put our configuration in their CPQ tool like Salesforce, which is a lot of our deals, but they also take the same CPQ rules engine and they put it in e-commerce experience. So, if you think about that, you can maintain your rules in one place and you can sell direct or you can do self-service on the internet, or you can use the configurator as a lead gen tool. So, a lot of our customers buy our tech because they want to put their configurator online and use it as lead gen. And so, it's just like if you go out and buy a new car, the first thing you do is you go online for the manufacturer and you configure the Mercedes or whatever before you even step foot into a dealer. Well, a lot of B2B buyers are doing that now with technology and our configurator, they can put it on their corporate website and actually do that self-discovery, and SmartPredict actually helps a lot with that too.

>> Is this that whole composability aspect of it where... I mean, because when I look at it, like you said, there's different routes to market, there's different ways that you want to entice people into your product set, be it B2C or B2B or what have you. Is this where composability comes in and how the different, I guess you could say features of the products that are exposed?

>> Yeah, exactly. And that's why it's so important and that's part of that new buyer persona that's emerging from our B2C buying behavior into B2B. We do a lot of B2C stuff too, but B2B is primarily a lot of these complex transactions. And what the buyers want do is they want to do it on their terms, on their channel. And a lot of these deals will actually cross through several different channels to get them done. So, we have a customer, Keysight Technologies here in the Bay Area. A really cool Fortune 1000 high-tech manufacturer, and they bought our tech because they sell very high-end diagnostic equipment, oscilloscopes. They have a huge defense business. And a lot of their buyers actually want to go online and do discovery. And so, they do that on their website. That becomes a configuration in Logik.io. And then, behind the scenes we send that into their inside sales team, which is a different channel, and then they follow up with the customer and get the deal done, and composability is critical for that. So, we have customers that put it into service scenarios in addition to e-commerce and CPQ, and that's a huge value prop for us.

>> Yeah, I mean I think that a lot of people have gotten used to the instant gratification that the Amazons and all of the different marketplaces have brought. Have you seen that be really a focal point for your customer saying, "Hey, this is what I'm trying to do is give them that B2C type experience in the B2B world," because they're expecting it now? They want to be able to do their discovery on their own. They want to be able to do this, and, "Oh, by the way, it shortcuts it for my SDRs and my ISRs and the sales reps that I have out there."

>> Yeah, exactly. And one of the key things you need to be able to do that is you need to have amazing performance. So, what I tell a lot of customers and prospects, if Amazon took three seconds to give you an answer, we would probably all stop using Amazon to buy things. And so, one of the key factors is performance. So, when we started Logik.io, we knew we had to figure out the performance problem because that has been a key Achilles' heel of all CPQ tools to date. So, situations where you hear stories about reps waiting like five seconds, 10 seconds, and you're like, "Well, it's only five seconds, but if I'm a rep and I have to update the page 25 times to get a deal done, it's a very frustrating experience." And if you start talking about this concept of digital self-discovery and self-service, then wait times are just a complete nonstarter. And so, we put a lot of R&D into our rules engine, so there's no update button, there's no save button, there's no spinning wheel while you're waiting for it to calculate. You could have thousands of options, thousands of rules. And the big thing with Logik.io is it still behaves like Amazon. You can ask it very complex questions and it'll get back to you. And what I tell a lot of prospects, it's actually like a video game the way you interact with it. And you're like, "Well, that's cool," and people like that, but it actually changes the buying behavior. So, if you have unbelievable video game-like performance, it actually changes the way people think about your products and they'll actually make a lot more selections and a lot more discovery, which then gets them closer to doing a deal with you long-term. So, it actually has tremendous value from a long-term conversion standpoint.

>> So, I think I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about the fact that, again, one of my experiences with CPQ was that we tried out several different CPQs. And what we found was that the first one we tried, it was like we were going to have to go spend a million dollars in configuration with a consultancy and try to get it up and running. We went to another one, it didn't really fit our size company. We were a small company at the time, 5,000 customers and things of that nature. How do you see customers... You talked about getting rid of the monolithic legacy-type stuff, where you've been before. How do you really help them get started? What's the time to value that they can expect? How does it tie into Salesforce for that matter?

>> Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question actually. And 5,000 customers sounds like a pretty good business to me.

>> Yeah, it was a good business. They got acquired, so not a bad thing.

>> Yeah, the other benefit of composability is you don't have to do a million dollar 12-month project. And what I find is that especially here in the Bay Area, a lot of tech companies, they just don't do one-year projects anymore. I'm giving a talk today with a really cool tech company, Fortune 1000 company, and we signed with them and their CIO said, "We're doing a three-month project." And everyone's like, "That's not possible." And they're like, "Nope, give me something in three months." And we did it, which we love. We love customers who like to go fast, that's awesome. But what's cool about composability is you can still just use the technology where you need it to solve your business problem versus do a complete rip out of this gigantic concrete monolith, so to speak. And so, a lot of customers like it if they have a bunch of products, but there's only one product that's really hard to sell. Sometimes we just do a configurator for that, and it's a one-month, two-month project. And then we do a lot of deals with Salesforce where it's a complete re-engineering of the front end of their business and those are longer projects, but what I'm finding is companies now like to just use it where they need it, and then they like to do these sprints. So, now this company, I mentioned a three-month project, they've done three more three month projects to really transform their business. And now, they're doing another project right now that's led by the CEO himself, and it's a lot more fun to do projects like that.

>> Yeah, getting bite-sized chunks, seeing success continuing on, because again, we had, and I owned the product at the time, so I was responsible for basically the SKU list that was going into CPQ, and you started to look at it, and we were evolving our business as rapidly as we were getting CPQ put in. And we were bringing on new partners where we had another set of SKUs that had to go to the partner. What we found was that the value of CPQ is we actually pivoted and started with the partner-led one because we were getting more value. And what they found is that we could get the quotes out faster than they could, so we weren't adding time to their quoting because it would go through the... Do you see these multi-level channels and ways to market as pretty normal with the clients you're working with today?

>> Yeah, yeah, we do. We see it a lot. And it is somewhat aligned by vertical, as you'd expect. So, a lot of tech businesses, they'll have a multi-tier channel with VARs, distributors, resellers, and they all interact with each other, and that adds a ton of typically workflow and pricing complexity, which can be a challenge. I mean, the easiest use case from an adoption standpoint is a company that just has direct sales because they can just aggregate the team, figure it out, do the design, take it to market. And then, we work with manufacturing companies where it's all distribution. And then, when you get into some of the off-highway or automotive stuff, then you get dealers, which is kind of a whole different experience. In those cases, you kind of create these little retail sites for them, because some of these dealers can be quite large businesses and they'll actually take the composability, they'll put our configurator in their website, which is also kind of a cool benefit for them.

>> Have you seen people in the marketplaces actually trying to build CPQ into the marketplace experience as well?

>> Yeah, a little bit. It's not super highly adopted, but we're actually getting more and more marketplace-type inquiries. So, honestly, I'm not really sure what's going on with that because it seems like everything's made a full 360, because that was back in 2000 when we actually started my previous CPQ company. We actually started it as a marketplace configuration engine, and then all the marketplaces kind of fizzled, if you remember, in early 2000. But it seems like maybe they're making a comeback.

>> I think they are. I think are and I think there's a lot going on in various different industries where the marketplaces are consolidating, and I think a lot of that has to do with being able to do comparisons and people looking and quickly trying to evaluate. I think, again, that's where recommendations and other stuff that come in. So, how do you see your customers? How do they recommend you? Is that how you get a lot of your businesses through those recommendations and things of that nature? Or do they just come find you at Dreamforce? Or how do you see this?

>> Well, yeah, I mean, we do get customer recommendations. We're very aggressive with customer success, so we take a lot of NPS scores constantly. Our NPS is 54, which actually is quite good for enterprise software. I think it's a little bit above Salesforce, but below Apple. So, we're very proud of that. And we actually allow customers to give us NPS scores any time inside the app, and those all get circulated to our management team. And then every week we look through all those scores and anyone that's a detractor, I personally reach out to them and find out what we can do to make them a promoter. So, that is a good bit of referral. But obviously, Dreamforce is huge for us. So, we have actually two booths here this year, and we invest a lot in the Salesforce relationship. It's a huge part of our business. So, we do shows. We also do a lot of outbounding into these various verticals because the way we look at the market is if you don't follow this trend in buying behavior, where B2B buying customers want to do it on their time and they want to do it their way, we feel like a lot of companies are going to get marginalized.

>> Totally agree. So, what are you looking forward to this week at Dreamforce?

>> Looking forward to Friday.

>> I think we all are. Well, I want to welcome you onboard and thanks for coming on today. I think, again, Chris, I'm passionate about this myself because I've been on the other side of it, and I think you can see that simplifying it. And I think definitely your point on AI, this is place where I would expect AI could help massively, especially upleveling some of those salespeople, so that they can be more accurate, quicker, more efficient. So, good stuff.

>> Yeah, AI is a goldmine for the users and the admins that have to maintain these systems day in and day out, so we're really excited. Thanks for your time, Rob.

>> Yeah. Thanks, Chris. And thank you for watching this episode from Dreamforce where we're headquartered out at the NYSE's offices. We'll be back with more. So, stay tuned and we'll be right back.