RSA Conference 2024 | Jay Chaudhry | Zscaler

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Jay Chaudhry

CEO

Zscaler

Three insights you might have missed from theCUBE’s coverage of the RSA Conference

In the 12 months since security practitioners gathered in San Francisco for the 2023 annual RSA Conference, the view of artificial intelligence has expanded. Where AI was once either bad for business or good for improving protection, it has now become a whole new challenge that will require a novel approach.This was one of the key themes to emerge from four days of coverage as theCUBE, SiliconANGLE Media’s livestreaming studio, interviewed industry executives, government officials and analysts to hear the most recent insights into the future direction of cybersecurity

Zscaler addresses rising phishing threats and AI security challenges

During last year’s RSA Conference, there was some talk around how artificial intelligence might influence cybersecurity, with attackers potentially using the technology to write better phishing emails, for instance. At this week’s event, there are more conversations about the exposure that AI brings and about how to secure AI.AI is a fascinating technology, but like many other technologies, it has two sides, according to Jay Chaudhry (pictured), founder and chief executive officer of Zscaler Inc. While AI can help with business productivity, it can also be very dangerous.“Think of a simple example

play_circle_outline Increase in phishing attacks and ransomware concerns

play_circle_outline The Emerging Role of AI in Cybersecurity: Safeguarding Systems from Attacks and Securing AI Services

play_circle_outline Overcoming Challenges: Minimizing Installed Vendors and Driving Mindset Change for CIOs and CISOs

play_circle_outline Exposed Truths: Legacy Vendors' False Zero Trust Architecture Claims vs Zscaler's Expanding Platform

Info

Jay Chaudhry | Zscaler

Jay Chaudhry

CEO Zscaler

search

>> Hi everybody. We're back. You're watching theCUBE. We're here with Jay Chaudhary, the CEO of Zscaler. Welcome back to theCUBE. Thank you so much for spending some time with us.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Dave, thank you. It's an honor.

>> Really, the pleasure is ours. We saw you last night at your party. It's awesome to see your community. Everybody wants to take pictures, autographs, so you're famous in this world. What are you hearing from customers at this show? Any themes you can share with us? And any differences, Jay, from a year ago at RSA?

Jay Chaudhry

>> So first of all, it's a great opportunity to meet so many customers out here. We did two announcements at the show. One, there's a phishing report based on about 2 billion phishing attacks that we blocked last year. Looking at the data, it has gone up 60% year over year because phishing is a starting point to steal credentials, and then they start doing ransomware attacks. So that's one theme because we are making sure we can protect our customers against it, and our zero trust architecture helps us. Second announcement we made was working with Google, we actually can provide third-party access two applications from b-value devices because third-party risk is growing, and that has to be done. Now, in terms of conversation, there have been so many conversation with customers. Obviously, you'll expect AI being part of the conversation always these days, but fear of getting breached and the business stopping because of ransomware is number one concern on every CISO's mind.

>> Yeah. And so last year, there was talk, there was chatter about AI, GenAI, maybe obviously attackers using AI to write better phishing emails. There seems to be much more conversation this year about the exposures that AI brings and thinking about how to secure AI.

Jay Chaudhry

>> That's right.

>> How do you think about that?

Jay Chaudhry

>> So AI is a fascinating technology. Like many other technologies, it has two sides. It can help with business productivity, but it can be very dangerous. Think of a simple example. You can ask ChatGPT and say, "Tell me all the VPN systems this company has and what vulnerabilities do they have." It would've taken them days to collect this information. Now, it's available in a matter of seconds. So identifying your attack surface, the starting point of attack becomes easy. As you said, phishing emails can be written very nicely. Then they're going to go from there. So we got to fight AI with AI. We are leveraging AI to actually analyze billions and billions of logs to actually figure out in this a needle in the haystack to see if two users in this company got compromised and the bad guys are trying to move to step two and three and four. So figuring out this technology is a big thing for us. But in addition to that, CISOs also want to make sure that they can securely use AI services. That has three pieces to it. One, they want to know what services are our employees going to use. CISOs aren't about stopping them. CISOs are supposed to enable business. AI is a business enabler, but it starts, where are they going? Number two, they want to control access. There are thousands of AI services. It's not just ChatGPT. Which services do I want my companies to use? Here are five or 10, section one. And number three, when they use it, they need to use it safely to make sure they don't really submit the source code of the company to say, do QA own it? And Zscaler can do all fee for our customers. Most of our large customers that are using this security do what they call secure use of AI.

>> I want to ask you about a corner case. Maybe it's not such a corner case. I know of situations where... Because you're talking about a curated, approved set of AI.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yep.

>> I know of a couple of times, I've heard this rumor. Developers were told you cannot use, for instance, ChatGPT in this case, but they like ChatGPT. So they couldn't use it on their laptop. So what do they do? They pull out the phone, and they pull out the app. How should CSOs handle that? And can you help?

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yeah, so every large company has to worry about it. Until solar winds happen,-

>> Yep....

Jay Chaudhry

>> developers had a lot of freedom. They could download open source tools. Then everyone realized that these tools could be dangerous. So more and more of Zscaler customers, yes, they block ChatGPT or only have controlled access. Even if you download something on your phone, your source code is not going to go on your phone. So there are proper data protection solution that Zscaler offers to make sure we protect data on the endpoint, we protect data in your email, in S3 bucket, or Snowflake or wherever. That has to be done. Take my phone. It actually has a personal profile and work profile. When I'm doing my own Netflix or YouTube, it's on one side. My company doesn't see it. It goes direct. When I'm going to access my applications, the data, it all sits in a container that's company owned. That's the right approach to do, and that's what we enable with our customers. Sorry.

>> Okay. I want to ask you about the survey that Barclays did. came out. It was a couple of months ago now. And I think of you as a category creator. You kind created the sassy category, and you're really kind of the only pure play really out there. I think that's fair.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Absolutely.

>> His survey, it was a small end, it was only about 100, but there was two things in there. One showed momentum for Zscaler. Our data shows the same. But the other takeaway was a market decline for the first time ever in hardware-based appliance-based firewalls. And so I thought that was an interesting data point, something that you've been preaching, predicting for a long, long time. It feels like the market's finally catching up to your vision. What are you seeing out there? How would you respond?

Jay Chaudhry

>> Inertia is powerful. people keep on doing what they're doing. That's part of our cyber issues too. Okay? Because we are using old technologies. When hackers have no inertia, hackers move on and embrace new approaches faster. But I think part of the reason this has been happening, this means the firewall sales have stayed pretty good until recently, the following as cyber attacks are happening. So the company gets breached. What do people do? The budget opens up. They had 100 firewalls. They say go and buy another hundred firewalls. Okay? The budget opens up. So a lot of companies have been buying more of the old stuff because that's what they knew. As we evangelize the staff, now we have over 40% of Fortune 500 companies are customers. In fact, I have so many CIOs and CISOs who are repeat customers, not only once, not only twice, sometimes three or four times. So the awareness is going up, but also the data centers are going down. The number of applications running the traffic had to go down. I expected this to go down a couple of years ago. Then I learned, about six months ago, why it has taken longer to go down. I was talking to a CIO. He said, "I'm so proud that 60% of my applications have moved to the cloud and only 40% are left in the data center." I said, "That's good. That means only 40% of traffic goes to the data center." He said, "Perhaps." I said, "If that's the case, probably in the past year you should not have upgraded a single firewall load balancers, router, or switch." He smiled. He said, "I wish that were true." Now, why wasn't it true? Even though he had rolled that SD-WAN, he was still bringing all branch traffic to the data center, then here pinning over an express route to Azure, old approach, because that's always done it. As traffic was through the data center, he's still upgrading firewalls and routers and switches. In the Zscaler world, you go direct. You don't have to go through a few choke points. As more and more customers start doing so, hardware-based or data center-based firewalls are bound to go down.

>> So they were throwing band-aids at the problem-

Jay Chaudhry

>> Exactly....

>> because this is the way they always did it.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes.

>> And now starting to realize, hey... To your point, security budgets are going up significantly faster than the overall.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes.

>> I would say our data shows the overall is growing about 3.4% at the macro IT spending. Security is probably triple that.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes.

>> Okay, sounds about right. Maybe even a little bit more.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes.

>> Okay. But it's not like you have unlimited budget if you're a CISO. We're also seeing IT organizations are stealing budget from other places to fund GenAI.

Jay Chaudhry

>> That's true.

>> And probably not from the security budget, clearly not from the security budget, but maybe business budgets or other AI budgets.

Jay Chaudhry

>> That's right.

>> But still, there's not unlimited budgets, so you have to at some point say, can we do this smarter? It sounds like that cycle is starting to hit now.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes. And also, customers are tired off too many security point products. They want consolidation and simplification, but they don't want consolidation of all this to one security platform vendor. Imagine it's one vendor with all security products you depend upon gets compromised. It's a bad thing. Imagine your vendor provides applications and security at the same time and gets compromised. That's a bad day for you. So we think consolidation to a small number of platforms is good, but you don't want to one vendor. So we are big fans of a separate provider for EDR, separate for identity, and we play an important role to be in line policy enforcement edge.

>> It's working. That's why when we go to CrowdStrike Falcon, we see you there. We see Okta there. So you guys are good partners.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes.

>> Having said that, I'll show you some other data from our survey.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Okay.

>> The customers are not able to consolidate the number of vendors. This is, what do you expect over the next 12 months in terms of the number of vendors that you have installed? 51% of the customers said increase, and I think 37% said stay the same, so only 9% were able to actually decrease the number of vendors. This is an age-old problem. And we asked them why, and they said, "Well, I need best of breed." Now, you're best of breed. The partners that we talked about are best of breed, but customers are still struggling to minimize the number of tools they have installed. How do we get out of this vicious cycle, this inertia, if you will?

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yeah. So I must say I'm a little bit surprised-

>> I was shocked with this data....

Jay Chaudhry

>> looking at this data because our customers that are large enterprises are actually doing significant consolidation. An average Zscaler sale reduces about from four or five vendors down to us. We replace four or five vendors by our Zscaler solution. Now, I'll tell you, there is certainly an issue in this area. What's the issue? This is my dialogue with the CIO of a manufacturing company in the Midwest. He said, "Budgets are tight, buying new stuff is hard, but eliminating what already have in place is much harder." He said, "People have emotional ties, sense of ownership, pride. There may be five reasons to get it off it, but they come with one corner case to keep it." Unless CIOs and CISOs take leadership and say, "We need to get it off this legacy stuff," they sit out there. They linger out there. And that's what has to be done. The mindset change has to be driven by CIOs and CISOs, and some are doing more than others.

>> Well, see, I think you're in the minority. When I saw this today, I said, "I have to ask Jay and George." And I get the same answer from CrowdStrike, is actually we're not seeing this. In our customer base, we're seeing the consolidation. Of course, you heard Palo Alto last quarter said fatigue, and you guys picked up on that, but you're not seeing that fatigue is what you said last quarter.

Jay Chaudhry

>> That's right.

>> I know you're in quiet period, we're not talking about financials, but that to me says that you're in the minority, which is the other flip side of this, Jay, is this is actually good news because that means there's a huge market-

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes, absolutely....

>> for you guys.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Absolutely. And our platform is expanding as well. Customers don't want lots of consoles out there, right? But it is true customers don't want mediocre point products. One of the challenge our customers are facing out there is that the legacy vendors are claiming to do all kinds of stuff. Five, six years ago when we were out there, that traditional firewall and security vendors say, "Securing the cloud, how is that possible? It's going to stay on-prem." Then they saw our adoption. Then they say, "Oh, we can do that too." I think one of the big issues our industry is facing is customers are getting confused, largely because legacy vendors are claiming to do zero trust while they are simply bolting things on firewalls and all. Spinning a VM firewall or VM, VP in the cloud doesn't make it zero trust architecture. I just finished a long conversation with the customer. He said, "Help me describe the difference." It took me about 20 minutes. Then the light bulb went on, and he said, "Huh, I thought you could do zero trust on firewalls." Unfortunately, they're creating a false sense of security,

>> Yeah. And so it's very hard for a company that has this massive portfolio trying to be all things to all people to also be best of breed.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Exactly.

>> I get that every CEO's job is to expand the TAM.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Right.

>> You happen to create a market. You've got a big tailwind. You have a lot of room ahead of you. At some point when you get big enough, you maybe have to make those decisions. We've seen it in tech many, many times, but I don't see how you can be everything to everybody and just breed at the same time.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Absolutely, you can't. So we have been very disciplined in terms of what we want to do and what we don't want to do. I can tell you in the past years, so many years, our investors sometimes have, or even analysts have said, "Oh, why don't you guys buy an EDR company or identity company or SD-WAN company." Say we have a North Star. I want to be the policy engine in line to do it the best way possible than anybody else. There's expansion in that area. For example, we did it for employees and workforce, secure access to applications. Then we expanded it to workloads. Workloads are somewhat like users. They talk to internet. They talk to each other. Then we expanded the same core solution to IoT, OT access, and then you B2B customer suppliers and partners. So there's immense opportunity for us to grow without getting into mature, commoditized markets.

>> Yeah, you feel like there's no shortage of market for you?

Jay Chaudhry

>> Not at all.

>> Yeah, I see that.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Not at all.

>> Yeah.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Our customers are buying. Our presence is expanding.

>> Jay, I know you got a big dinner to go to. Thanks so much. We really appreciate your time, and welcome back anytime. Love to have you.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Dave, thank you.

>> Our pleasure. Okay, and thank you for watching. Keep it right there. We'll be right back to wrap day two from RSA 2024. You're watching theCUBE.

Jay Chaudhry | Zscaler

search

>> Hi everybody. We're back. You're watching theCUBE. We're here with Jay Chaudhary, the CEO of Zscaler. Welcome back to theCUBE. Thank you so much for spending some time with us.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Dave, thank you. It's an honor.

>> Really, the pleasure is ours. We saw you last night at your party. It's awesome to see your community. Everybody wants to take pictures, autographs, so you're famous in this world. What are you hearing from customers at this show? Any themes you can share with us? And any differences, Jay, from a year ago at RSA?

Jay Chaudhry

>> So first of all, it's a great opportunity to meet so many customers out here. We did two announcements at the show. One, there's a phishing report based on about 2 billion phishing attacks that we blocked last year. Looking at the data, it has gone up 60% year over year because phishing is a starting point to steal credentials, and then they start doing ransomware attacks. So that's one theme because we are making sure we can protect our customers against it, and our zero trust architecture helps us. Second announcement we made was working with Google, we actually can provide third-party access two applications from b-value devices because third-party risk is growing, and that has to be done. Now, in terms of conversation, there have been so many conversation with customers. Obviously, you'll expect AI being part of the conversation always these days, but fear of getting breached and the business stopping because of ransomware is number one concern on every CISO's mind.

>> Yeah. And so last year, there was talk, there was chatter about AI, GenAI, maybe obviously attackers using AI to write better phishing emails. There seems to be much more conversation this year about the exposures that AI brings and thinking about how to secure AI.

Jay Chaudhry

>> That's right.

>> How do you think about that?

Jay Chaudhry

>> So AI is a fascinating technology. Like many other technologies, it has two sides. It can help with business productivity, but it can be very dangerous. Think of a simple example. You can ask ChatGPT and say, "Tell me all the VPN systems this company has and what vulnerabilities do they have." It would've taken them days to collect this information. Now, it's available in a matter of seconds. So identifying your attack surface, the starting point of attack becomes easy. As you said, phishing emails can be written very nicely. Then they're going to go from there. So we got to fight AI with AI. We are leveraging AI to actually analyze billions and billions of logs to actually figure out in this a needle in the haystack to see if two users in this company got compromised and the bad guys are trying to move to step two and three and four. So figuring out this technology is a big thing for us. But in addition to that, CISOs also want to make sure that they can securely use AI services. That has three pieces to it. One, they want to know what services are our employees going to use. CISOs aren't about stopping them. CISOs are supposed to enable business. AI is a business enabler, but it starts, where are they going? Number two, they want to control access. There are thousands of AI services. It's not just ChatGPT. Which services do I want my companies to use? Here are five or 10, section one. And number three, when they use it, they need to use it safely to make sure they don't really submit the source code of the company to say, do QA own it? And Zscaler can do all fee for our customers. Most of our large customers that are using this security do what they call secure use of AI.

>> I want to ask you about a corner case. Maybe it's not such a corner case. I know of situations where... Because you're talking about a curated, approved set of AI.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yep.

>> I know of a couple of times, I've heard this rumor. Developers were told you cannot use, for instance, ChatGPT in this case, but they like ChatGPT. So they couldn't use it on their laptop. So what do they do? They pull out the phone, and they pull out the app. How should CSOs handle that? And can you help?

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yeah, so every large company has to worry about it. Until solar winds happen,-

>> Yep....

Jay Chaudhry

>> developers had a lot of freedom. They could download open source tools. Then everyone realized that these tools could be dangerous. So more and more of Zscaler customers, yes, they block ChatGPT or only have controlled access. Even if you download something on your phone, your source code is not going to go on your phone. So there are proper data protection solution that Zscaler offers to make sure we protect data on the endpoint, we protect data in your email, in S3 bucket, or Snowflake or wherever. That has to be done. Take my phone. It actually has a personal profile and work profile. When I'm doing my own Netflix or YouTube, it's on one side. My company doesn't see it. It goes direct. When I'm going to access my applications, the data, it all sits in a container that's company owned. That's the right approach to do, and that's what we enable with our customers. Sorry.

>> Okay. I want to ask you about the survey that Barclays did. came out. It was a couple of months ago now. And I think of you as a category creator. You kind created the sassy category, and you're really kind of the only pure play really out there. I think that's fair.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Absolutely.

>> His survey, it was a small end, it was only about 100, but there was two things in there. One showed momentum for Zscaler. Our data shows the same. But the other takeaway was a market decline for the first time ever in hardware-based appliance-based firewalls. And so I thought that was an interesting data point, something that you've been preaching, predicting for a long, long time. It feels like the market's finally catching up to your vision. What are you seeing out there? How would you respond?

Jay Chaudhry

>> Inertia is powerful. people keep on doing what they're doing. That's part of our cyber issues too. Okay? Because we are using old technologies. When hackers have no inertia, hackers move on and embrace new approaches faster. But I think part of the reason this has been happening, this means the firewall sales have stayed pretty good until recently, the following as cyber attacks are happening. So the company gets breached. What do people do? The budget opens up. They had 100 firewalls. They say go and buy another hundred firewalls. Okay? The budget opens up. So a lot of companies have been buying more of the old stuff because that's what they knew. As we evangelize the staff, now we have over 40% of Fortune 500 companies are customers. In fact, I have so many CIOs and CISOs who are repeat customers, not only once, not only twice, sometimes three or four times. So the awareness is going up, but also the data centers are going down. The number of applications running the traffic had to go down. I expected this to go down a couple of years ago. Then I learned, about six months ago, why it has taken longer to go down. I was talking to a CIO. He said, "I'm so proud that 60% of my applications have moved to the cloud and only 40% are left in the data center." I said, "That's good. That means only 40% of traffic goes to the data center." He said, "Perhaps." I said, "If that's the case, probably in the past year you should not have upgraded a single firewall load balancers, router, or switch." He smiled. He said, "I wish that were true." Now, why wasn't it true? Even though he had rolled that SD-WAN, he was still bringing all branch traffic to the data center, then here pinning over an express route to Azure, old approach, because that's always done it. As traffic was through the data center, he's still upgrading firewalls and routers and switches. In the Zscaler world, you go direct. You don't have to go through a few choke points. As more and more customers start doing so, hardware-based or data center-based firewalls are bound to go down.

>> So they were throwing band-aids at the problem-

Jay Chaudhry

>> Exactly....

>> because this is the way they always did it.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes.

>> And now starting to realize, hey... To your point, security budgets are going up significantly faster than the overall.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes.

>> I would say our data shows the overall is growing about 3.4% at the macro IT spending. Security is probably triple that.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes.

>> Okay, sounds about right. Maybe even a little bit more.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes.

>> Okay. But it's not like you have unlimited budget if you're a CISO. We're also seeing IT organizations are stealing budget from other places to fund GenAI.

Jay Chaudhry

>> That's true.

>> And probably not from the security budget, clearly not from the security budget, but maybe business budgets or other AI budgets.

Jay Chaudhry

>> That's right.

>> But still, there's not unlimited budgets, so you have to at some point say, can we do this smarter? It sounds like that cycle is starting to hit now.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes. And also, customers are tired off too many security point products. They want consolidation and simplification, but they don't want consolidation of all this to one security platform vendor. Imagine it's one vendor with all security products you depend upon gets compromised. It's a bad thing. Imagine your vendor provides applications and security at the same time and gets compromised. That's a bad day for you. So we think consolidation to a small number of platforms is good, but you don't want to one vendor. So we are big fans of a separate provider for EDR, separate for identity, and we play an important role to be in line policy enforcement edge.

>> It's working. That's why when we go to CrowdStrike Falcon, we see you there. We see Okta there. So you guys are good partners.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes.

>> Having said that, I'll show you some other data from our survey.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Okay.

>> The customers are not able to consolidate the number of vendors. This is, what do you expect over the next 12 months in terms of the number of vendors that you have installed? 51% of the customers said increase, and I think 37% said stay the same, so only 9% were able to actually decrease the number of vendors. This is an age-old problem. And we asked them why, and they said, "Well, I need best of breed." Now, you're best of breed. The partners that we talked about are best of breed, but customers are still struggling to minimize the number of tools they have installed. How do we get out of this vicious cycle, this inertia, if you will?

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yeah. So I must say I'm a little bit surprised-

>> I was shocked with this data....

Jay Chaudhry

>> looking at this data because our customers that are large enterprises are actually doing significant consolidation. An average Zscaler sale reduces about from four or five vendors down to us. We replace four or five vendors by our Zscaler solution. Now, I'll tell you, there is certainly an issue in this area. What's the issue? This is my dialogue with the CIO of a manufacturing company in the Midwest. He said, "Budgets are tight, buying new stuff is hard, but eliminating what already have in place is much harder." He said, "People have emotional ties, sense of ownership, pride. There may be five reasons to get it off it, but they come with one corner case to keep it." Unless CIOs and CISOs take leadership and say, "We need to get it off this legacy stuff," they sit out there. They linger out there. And that's what has to be done. The mindset change has to be driven by CIOs and CISOs, and some are doing more than others.

>> Well, see, I think you're in the minority. When I saw this today, I said, "I have to ask Jay and George." And I get the same answer from CrowdStrike, is actually we're not seeing this. In our customer base, we're seeing the consolidation. Of course, you heard Palo Alto last quarter said fatigue, and you guys picked up on that, but you're not seeing that fatigue is what you said last quarter.

Jay Chaudhry

>> That's right.

>> I know you're in quiet period, we're not talking about financials, but that to me says that you're in the minority, which is the other flip side of this, Jay, is this is actually good news because that means there's a huge market-

Jay Chaudhry

>> Yes, absolutely....

>> for you guys.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Absolutely. And our platform is expanding as well. Customers don't want lots of consoles out there, right? But it is true customers don't want mediocre point products. One of the challenge our customers are facing out there is that the legacy vendors are claiming to do all kinds of stuff. Five, six years ago when we were out there, that traditional firewall and security vendors say, "Securing the cloud, how is that possible? It's going to stay on-prem." Then they saw our adoption. Then they say, "Oh, we can do that too." I think one of the big issues our industry is facing is customers are getting confused, largely because legacy vendors are claiming to do zero trust while they are simply bolting things on firewalls and all. Spinning a VM firewall or VM, VP in the cloud doesn't make it zero trust architecture. I just finished a long conversation with the customer. He said, "Help me describe the difference." It took me about 20 minutes. Then the light bulb went on, and he said, "Huh, I thought you could do zero trust on firewalls." Unfortunately, they're creating a false sense of security,

>> Yeah. And so it's very hard for a company that has this massive portfolio trying to be all things to all people to also be best of breed.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Exactly.

>> I get that every CEO's job is to expand the TAM.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Right.

>> You happen to create a market. You've got a big tailwind. You have a lot of room ahead of you. At some point when you get big enough, you maybe have to make those decisions. We've seen it in tech many, many times, but I don't see how you can be everything to everybody and just breed at the same time.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Absolutely, you can't. So we have been very disciplined in terms of what we want to do and what we don't want to do. I can tell you in the past years, so many years, our investors sometimes have, or even analysts have said, "Oh, why don't you guys buy an EDR company or identity company or SD-WAN company." Say we have a North Star. I want to be the policy engine in line to do it the best way possible than anybody else. There's expansion in that area. For example, we did it for employees and workforce, secure access to applications. Then we expanded it to workloads. Workloads are somewhat like users. They talk to internet. They talk to each other. Then we expanded the same core solution to IoT, OT access, and then you B2B customer suppliers and partners. So there's immense opportunity for us to grow without getting into mature, commoditized markets.

>> Yeah, you feel like there's no shortage of market for you?

Jay Chaudhry

>> Not at all.

>> Yeah, I see that.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Not at all.

>> Yeah.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Our customers are buying. Our presence is expanding.

>> Jay, I know you got a big dinner to go to. Thanks so much. We really appreciate your time, and welcome back anytime. Love to have you.

Jay Chaudhry

>> Dave, thank you.

>> Our pleasure. Okay, and thank you for watching. Keep it right there. We'll be right back to wrap day two from RSA 2024. You're watching theCUBE.