In this theCUBE + NYSE Wired segment, John Mustin, president of Saildrone, joins theCUBE’s John Furrier to discuss how the company is redefining maritime surveillance through AI-powered unmanned surface vessels. Mustin walks through Saildrone’s evolution from wind-and-solar-powered prototypes to high-endurance diesel-electric platforms outfitted with advanced sensor arrays. The result: months-long autonomous deployments delivering real-time intelligence across missions from environmental monitoring to defense and interdiction.
The conversation explores how Saildrone’s vertically integrated tech stack – fusing EO cameras, radar, AIS, RF and acoustic sensors – is shifting the maritime operations paradigm. Mustin details how the company filters terabytes of data into actionable insights, helping governments pinpoint threats, monitor compliance, and optimize naval deployments. From detecting shadow fleets violating UN sanctions to preparing for a live missile launch from its Surveyor class drone, Saildrone is not just observing the world’s oceans – it’s actively shaping strategic outcomes.
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John Mustin, Saildrone
Metabob revolutionizes AI code analysis and optimization through innovative applications of cutting-edge technology. In this insightful session, Dave Vellante of SiliconANGLE Media hosts Axel Lönnfors, chief operating officer at Metabob, at the Rosewood for theCUBE + NYSE Wired event. Lönnfors discusses advancements in AI code analysis, providing a glimpse into Metabob's use of graph neural networks to streamline code optimization and refactor substantial legacy systems.
The Metabob platform leverages AI by integrating graph neural networks with large language models, effectively modernizing and detecting anomalies within extensive codebases. Co-hosted by theCUBE Research, the discussion explores how Metabob’s capabilities assist companies, ranging from government agencies to Fortune 500 firms, in managing their technical debt. Lönnfors details the enterprise-driven approach and the journey towards achieving product-market fit.
Key insights from the conversation include the importance of accurate anomaly detection and automated fixes for maintaining operational efficiency. Lönnfors emphasizes Metabob’s unique position, highlighting its focus on preserving code context to prevent issues such as 502 errors. They assert that customer satisfaction and value delivery remain the company's guiding principles, steering Metabob towards greater integration into AI-driven development environments.
In this theCUBE + NYSE Wired segment, John Mustin, president of Saildrone, joins theCUBE’s John Furrier to discuss how the company is redefining maritime surveillance through AI-powered unmanned surface vessels. Mustin walks through Saildrone’s evolution from wind-and-solar-powered prototypes to high-endurance diesel-electric platforms outfitted with advanced sensor arrays. The result: months-long autonomous deployments delivering real-time intelligence across missions from environmental monitoring to defense and interdiction.
The conversation explor...Read more
exploreKeep Exploring
What is Saildrone's mission, and what products does it offer?add
What does a Saildrone look like and how does it work?add
What sensors and data-processing capabilities does the system use, and what information or outputs does it provide to customers about vessels (e.g., contact cards, tracks, behavior/flag/origin)?add
How does Saildrone differentiate itself from other defense-technology platforms during the current boom in the sector?add
Will Saildrone conduct a missile launch from an unmanned surface vessel during the Rim of the Pacific exercise, and what are the implications of weaponized unmanned surface platforms for naval operations and the character of warfare?add
>> Welcome back. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE here at our New York Stock Exchange CUBE Studios. Of course, we have our Palo Alto studio connecting Silicon Valley and Wall Street, tech and money. This is our AI Leader series, robotics and physical AI is continuing to be the hottest trend. It's a little bit out there, but the work's being done now. We're seeing AI, AI agents and physical AI coming together. We have a great guest here with Saildrone, who we've covered before, as a great device. It's physical and it's also doing a lot of great stuff with AI. John Mustin, former vice admiral of the Navy, now president of Saildrone. Great to see you. Thanks for coming in.
John Mustin
>> Hey, it's my pleasure, John. Thanks for the hospitality.
John Furrier
>> Former vice admiral, retired from the Navy. Congratulations for you. Thank you for your service.
John Mustin
>> Indeed, a pleasure. Yeah.
John Furrier
>> Now, I mean, obviously Navy, water, Saildrone. So, the folks who don't know Saildrone, our audience knows a little bit about it, talk about what you guys do. It's very innovative. It's pioneering a category, but it's also providing a unique function.
John Mustin
>> Absolutely. Well, Saildrone has a mission to provide governments and defense organizations enduring persistent presence to allow them to preserve sovereignty and ensure commerce, freedom, and frankly, make better decisions for their warriors. The way we do this is by providing vehicles that can go farther and stay on station longer and provide autonomous support. So, we are an autonomous unmanned surface vessel company.
John Furrier
>> And explain the products. What do you guys have out there now?
John Mustin
>> So, we have a number of different platforms that vary by size, but the products really are the combination of the platform itself, which is a vessel that sails on the surface of the ocean, but it's also the amalgam of all of the data systems, sensors and payloads that provide us the opportunity to give our customers what they really want, which is eyes and ears on the ocean for long duration.
John Furrier
>> All right. So, you say sail. I think there's a sail. Is it navigating? Does it actually have a sail? Describe the product. Go search up Saildrone, you'll see it's very innovative. Again, I've covered this many times on theCUBE with AWS, but it's so cool. I think it's one of the coolest stories. Explain what it looks like and how it works.
John Mustin
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. So, first, a Saildrone, as I mentioned, is an unmanned surface vessel. So, we sail on the surface of the ocean. We have a sail, but we are diesel-electric in our 10-meter vessel. We are a diesel propulsion entity with our 20-meter vessel, so not small. 65 feet, 16 tons, these are large vessels. We use our sail to harvest energy, so that we only use our engines when we need to and we can sail. But the main message is even without the sail, we are a perfectly-capable unmanned surface vessel with diesel engines. But with solar augmentation and wind harvesting, it gives us unprecedented range and endurance, so we stay out for months at a time without service.
John Furrier
>> And unmanned means it's not just floating. There was a version of that early on. Now, you guys have full-on navigatable units, basically.
John Mustin
>> Exactly. Exactly. Well, even the seven-meter version, which you're referring to, known as the Explorer, that's 100% wind and solar-powered. That can stay out for a year at a time. That's a perfect vehicle for performing bathymetric and oceanographic missions, which is what we do with NOAA. We do science and exploration missions there. What we found though was our customers were asking for more complex payloads and sensors, which drove us to develop larger platforms.
John Furrier
>> Yeah, and it makes a lot of sense. And I think the efficiency here with the physical AI and the physical autonomous piece is that you can do things so much faster and more accurate versus the old methods. Explain and just share the before and after picture of what was done, what was state of the art before Saildrone?
John Mustin
>> So, our founder, Richard Jenkins, the origin story was his saying, "I've got an idea of how I could use autonomy or unmanned vessels to perform missions in areas where either ships can't go or they don't want to go." So, we say dirty, dull or dangerous missions are ideal for surface drones. So, Richard came up and handcrafted the initial prototype, which was, "I can create a vessel that, again, was wind and solar-powered and can stay out forever, can transit the oceans. If it stays out for more than a year, then it can do an awful lot, reporting back what it sees and what it senses around the environment."
As I mentioned, we receive feedback from customers saying, "Hey, that's great, but we would like to do some other things too." When you start talking about governments or military organizations, what they really want is the ability to get real-time information about what's happening on or under the ocean. So, we built out now new enhancements to the sensors and payloads that incorporate electro-optical cameras, 200-watt radar, automated information system capability that we then pipe back to maritime operation centers, so that our customers have the benefit of seeing data in real time where they don't have other ships.
John Furrier
>> Yeah. And it was probably inadequate or antiquated processes before. Now, you have more data acquisition. That's a key value.
John Mustin
>> Yes.
John Furrier
>> We were just having a talk upstairs here at the NYSE around American Dynamism, which is basically defense tech-like talk amongst experts. What I found interesting, and I'd like to get your reaction to this, is that people in tech who speak roadmaps, architecture, velocity, don't speak the language of military, risk, durability, mission accomplished. So, you blend those together And the obvious thing that came out to the tech leaders was there's interdependencies between the different sectors.
John Mustin
>> Of course.
John Furrier
>> So, the ocean is used by many and the data is valuable. So, if data ingestion is a key product, the use cases would be to use the data or have missions for data acquisition for something.
John Mustin
>> Yes.
John Furrier
>> Take us through that dynamic because you can do all the data, but now you can slice and dice it. You have a lot of different use cases that could span either individual use cases, but also interrelated ones.
John Mustin
>> Yes, absolutely. So, it would be easy for us to flood our customers with data. We are ingesting and potentially broadcasting over a gigabyte of data per day, but the reality is not everything is relevant. So, the special sauce for what Saildrone provides is not just the platform, but the service that helps us not only to capture information, but to fuse the information to report back what our customers need. So, I'll just give you a use case is in the Caribbean, for instance, where there's narco trafficking, illegal immigration, illegal fisheries enforcement, UN resolution enforcement. There may be a lot of people that are underway on the surface of the ocean and the Caribbean doing what we expect of them in accordance with international law, there may be a few that are not. So, what we help our customers do is say, "You may look at 1,100 customers. There are two that appear to be performing some anomalous behavior." We can report that that then later drives to some interception or interdiction, but in the case of the Coast Guard, they can't possibly intercept 1,100 vessels, but they can certainly intercept two.
John Furrier
>> Yeah, it's the needle in the haystack of needles, basically, reference that everyone uses in the big data world. Take me through that use case. How does that work? What's the instrumentation? How do you get that level of data? I see the use case, but take me through. Is there cameras? Is it satellite? What's the comms and what's the data? How is Saildrone pulling it all together?
John Mustin
>> So, the answer is it's all the above. So, we are a vertically-integrated tech stack that allows us not only to capture the information, the results from radar, automated information system, electro-optical cameras for imagery. We can do full-motion video, RF capabilities, acoustic sensors that listen into the water. But again, we capture all that and process on the edge to allow us to fuse the information, to report back to the customers something as simple as a contact card, which is a picture of a boat with some analysis of, where is it flagged? What's its course and speed overground? Where's it going? Where did it originate? We also can show a track of where it's been, so you can identify, is it in accordance with the traffic separation scheme or is it behaving anonymously? So, all of those things are helpful to our customers that say, "I just can't possibly keep tabs on everything and I need help identifying the things that I should worry about."
John Furrier
>> And so, you have to integrate in. What you provide is that platform, that pane of glass into the data acquisition on whatever mission or whatever Saildrone has been programmed or is sailing around to?
John Mustin
>> Yeah. So, I'll just explain a little more about how we work. So, working with our customers, they'll identify, for instance, an area of interest and we can build a box around that. It could be several hundred square miles. And the task will be, we want you to autonomously operate in that area and report back everything you see. So, we build the mission from our mission command center, but then the platform itself operates autonomously to get there and to remain there. And that ensures that not only is it where it's supposed to be, but we also use our tech stack to determine, do we need to use the engine or not? And if we don't, because the currents and the winds are sufficient, then we shut the engine down and that allows us to stay on station for a long time, and that's a very differentiated feature of our work.
John Furrier
>> As retired vice admiral, obviously you've seen a lot of things in your career. One of the things that's coming out of the public-private innovation formula that's happening with AI and AI factories and some of the cool edge use cases, like I mean internet edge and connected edge, which you guys are part of, is that you're starting to see new breakout companies, private companies with massive government contracts. Everyone's talking about Palantir, Anduril. And so, you're seeing a thirst for breakout capability. Now, that you're on the other side of the table, what's that like for your customer base in the government? Because the success companies here are tech companies. I mean, SpaceX is being looked at a lot as an example, but the talks of these young companies coming out, they just do the full tech stack, they have a platform, they're faster to escape velocity and they serve a better product. That seems to be the formula. What's it like? Take us through how you fit into that and your thought process.
John Mustin
>> You bet. And there's no question this is an explosive time in the defense technology sector. I mean, there's a lot of available capital and we're seeing that deployed in a lot of ways. One differentiator with Saildrone is we're not new to this game. So, we've been in the market now doing production work as a proven platform for 12 years, five of which are with the US Navy, including the US Coast Guard. So, I like to differentiate between platforms that are being talked about and platforms that are being dependent upon. So, in our case-
John Furrier
>> You were a Customer. Now, you're the CEO.
John Mustin
>> Exactly. Exactly. And so, I was very familiar with the company and saw not only the entirety of the orbit of competitors, but I chose to come to Saildrone for a reason. I mean, it is a proven product that continues to iterate. So, Saildrone today is very different than we were five years ago. And I would tell you that a year from now, we will be very different than we are today. That pace of iteration is incorporated into how we view the world, but we don't come up with our enhancements in a vacuum. I mean, we are playing to the very specific feedback of our customers given what they want.
John Furrier
>> Yeah, and the trend that's really a great tailwind, pun intended, for you guys is that the AI world is moving to AI factories, a lot more easier integration of data, large-scale. So, you got super computing off-prem or-off vessel. You can deliver really scoped and personalized targeted data on use cases with the platform, but your customers are now getting supercomputing capabilities. What is that doing to the mission scope? Can you share, without breaking any government secrets, how that's impacting velocity, durability of the mission, and ultimately the outcome?
John Mustin
>> You bet, but I know you're looking to break a story, so-
John Furrier
>> Excellent. Feel free. No, I just like to hear the cool use cases.
John Mustin
>> So, for folks who go online and look at saildrone.com to see what we look like and what we do, I would just offer... Again, the platform is a small subset of what we deliver to our customers. The reality is it is the data fusion. It's the opportunity for our customers to act on intelligence that they wouldn't otherwise have access to. One of the interesting things from our internal organizational design is not quite less than 50%, but a significant portion of our company are software developers. So, in addition to production capability and composites and hardware, firmware, software, we are invested heavily in AI and machine learning. And so, that's infusing how we do what we do and how we deliver what our customers want. Now, to your specific point, we are very good at what we do, but we recognize the need to continually enhance our capabilities. So, we recently had an investment by a partner, Lockheed Martin, that has access to a variety of more complex payloads and sensors that we're in the process now of integrating.
John Furrier
>> And you guys are a great example of the physical AI wave, certainly way ahead of everyone else in terms of production deployment, but it's all ramp for you. You're ramping up more velocity.
John Mustin
>> Absolutely.
John Furrier
>> And so, you have to have the hardware and the software. I mean, everyone thinks NVIDIA is a hardware company. They do make chips. They get chips made for them, but they're a software company. So, same for you guys, right? It's a similar paradigm.
John Mustin
>> Exactly. Exactly.
John Furrier
>> But you still have a physical product.
John Mustin
>> I mean, the Navy would tell you platforms are commodities. I would tell you that the level of technical prowess that is injected into every one of our platforms is impressive. And I would put our software developers against any and the best in the world. I mean, one of the benefits of being on the East Bay in San Francisco is the access to Palo Alto, to innovation, to code, and we leverage that heavily. And that's what keeps us ahead of our competitors.
John Furrier
>> Well, you're in New York. You come in the studio here, but also I got a studio in Palo Alto, so-
John Mustin
>> I know. I know....
John Furrier
>> maybe get some more of the engineers-
John Mustin
>> I want to check out the Palo Alto setup.
John Furrier
>> As the chief of Saildrone, you're at the helm, moving the needle. What are your goals this year? Because there's a lot of speed in the game and the tech side. How are you managing that? How do you look at that? Obviously, your customer needs are great, so you're balancing rapid innovation on the product, software side, and customer go to market. What's your focus there? How do you think about that?
John Mustin
>> Well, first and foremost, we need to provide an absolute white-glove customer service experience. So, we want our customers to love what we're doing. Thankfully, that's the case, but we want to continue to invest in doing that better than anyone else. We also know that we need to continue to enhance our offering. So, what are the capabilities? As I mentioned, there's a few that are interesting when we talk about electronic warfare, signals intelligence, radio frequency usage, as well as integration of kinetics. So, while it has not been something that is widespread now, I can disclose that in July, we're going to do a missile shot from our Saildrone surveyor during something called the Rim of the Pacific exercise. That's a US Navy exercise, where we will contribute to syncing an exercise target. So, that's a milestone that is changing the game, not only for surface unmanned vessels, but frankly, for the character of war. So, that's exciting to us. And then, one other thing I would just offer as a teaser is I'd mentioned previously that our customers are demanding larger, more complex payloads, which results in larger platforms. So, we will continue to respond to the needs of the customers. And I would say, keep your eyes on the headlines.
John Furrier
>> Yeah. It's an exciting business from a tech perspective. I mean, I love that milestone because you take the core competency of passive monitoring into active mode at the point of consequence. I mean, just thinking about that, that is a unique differentiator.
John Mustin
>> Well, and the way that I phrase it, frankly, is we've been very good about establishing maritime domain awareness, so becoming aware of what's operating on or under the ocean. Now, we're shaping the battlespace because we can provide a very powerful deterrent force if adversaries know that there are unmanned weaponized platforms. So, we now are being integrated into what's called hedge strategies and tailored forces for Navy fleet concepts of operations. So, it's not just about aircraft carriers and destroyers, but how do unmanned systems factor into that?
John Furrier
>> I've been fascinated with the cloud. It's opened my coverage and awareness to space, highly contested and congested now. Maritime, ocean, same.
John Mustin
>> Of course.
John Furrier
>> For the folks that aren't calling the balls and strikes in that area, a lot of people just might not know the scope of issues in the waters around the world. Can you share some stories or some anecdotes around what people are thinking about in the brain trust? Obviously, the narco... We see that now being blown up or coming in, but there's a lot of things that if you don't pay attention to, could be threats. Can you share some stories from your experience?
John Mustin
>> Well, absolutely. I mean, just experience in the Baltic Sea, I would tell you that critical undersea infrastructure, whether that's the Nord Stream pipeline or internet connectivity that fuels financial transactions around the world, we know there's nefarious activity around the mapping of these critical nodes and these pathways. So, one of the services that Saildrone provides is the ability to, again, maintain a persistent presence to say, "Hey, it's unusual that we've got a Russian undersea reconnaissance program platform that's anchored over a critical intersection of pipelines."
John Furrier
>> They're just hanging out, loitering at a really bad spot for them.
John Mustin
>> And that's helpful for us to know not only where are they, but what are they doing and to enable our customers to take action on them too. Also, to identify things like-
John Furrier
>> Supply chain too, right?...
John Mustin
>> shadow fleet. Yes, indeed.
John Furrier
>> What's a shadow fleet?
John Mustin
>> So, there are UN resolutions about Russian oil transfers. And even though they're not supposed to be exporting oil, they continue to do so. They don't broadcast, so they essentially are very surreptitious about where they go and what they're doing, but we see them. And so, we're able to report that to our customers as well, which triggers a series of responses that are at the state level, not at the Saildrone level, but that's an important realization too. There are other things too. Around the coast of the Galapagos. I mean, it's not just illegal narcotics trafficking, but fisheries enforcement. That's another one where we see China's maritime militia and fishing fleets that are hoovering up protein stocks in the Gulf of Guinea off of Africa, certainly in the Pacific, but all over the world.
John Furrier
>> Basically bad behavior.
John Mustin
>> Yeah, exactly.
John Furrier
>> And also, threats too. I mean, this is like the classic, in the dark, democracy dies. That's the same-
John Mustin
>> Well, I always say lack of transparency creates nefarious behavior.
John Furrier
>> Yeah, and that's proven.
John Mustin
>> So, we want to shine a light on what's out there. And then, just the root use case is our Navy is the best in the world, our Coast Guard is the best in the world, but we don't have enough ships to focus on every single mission that the Navy would like to focus on.
John Furrier
>> Yeah. And also, from a labor standpoint, you can actually shift that labor into much more high-octane type creative roles or specialty roles, versus trying to hire a fleet of people.
John Mustin
>> Well, I want our multi-mission dollar guided missile destroyers to focus on those missions that only they can perform. And if we can supplement the fleet by performing a variety of missions related to maritime domain awareness or maritime domain dominance, if we can help with choke point transits, if we can illuminate who's operating where and what are they doing, then we're helping the Navy, again, so that we can remain a powerful bi-coastal-
John Furrier
>> And also, safety for supply chain. I mean, this is a huge deal.
John Mustin
>> Yeah. Yeah.
John Furrier
>> Well, John, thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it.
John Mustin
>> My pleasure.
John Furrier
>> Love the update on Saildrone. Again, this is a great example of a company that continues at the inflection point. Now, you got the tailwind of AI and the systems that could power the data, you can provide the data and help these missions go forward.
John Mustin
>> All right. Appreciate the time. Thanks for the hospitality.
John Furrier
>> All right. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE here in our NYSE studio, part of the NYSE Wired program, a CUBE original. Thanks for watching.
John Furrier