Media Day: VCs and Founders in AI Presented by theCUBE + NYSE Wired | Michael Liebow, Tech Executive

Clips
More from Media Day: VCs and Founders in AI Presented by theCUBE + NYSE Wired

Michael Liebow

Tech Executive

play_circle_outline New York City Rises as Leading Tech Hub, Overtaking Silicon Valley in Innovation and Growth

play_circle_outline The Impact of Hyperscalers on Market Evolution and Thriving Private Equity Scene in New York

play_circle_outline Investment in data centers and technology capabilities by major companies

play_circle_outline Leveraging AI to achieve 10X productivity gains in business users

play_circle_outline Importance of partner ecosystems and certification in cloud industry

Info
Transcript

Michael Liebow, Tech Executive

Michael Liebow

Tech Executive

The tech ecosystem in New York City is thriving, with a focus on enterprise growth in sectors like insurance and financial services. The private equity community is active and looking at investing in later-stage companies. The recent election is expected to bring a surge in M&A activity in the private equity market. Hyperscalers such as Amazon, Google, and Microsoft are heavily investing in cloud infrastructure and AI capabilities, with Amazon showing strong performance in its recent earnings report. The shift towards leveraging AI for enhanced business produ... Read more

explore Keep Exploring

What cities are challenging Silicon Valley as innovation hubs? add

What are some of the characteristics of the East Coast in terms of enterprise adoption and talent needed for business scaling? add

What company had stellar numbers in the past week, with great revenue and off the hook operating income, leading to speculation about their return on investment and plans for even more spending? add

What is the trend in professional services firms utilizing cloud platforms and operating leverage? add

What factors are considered for tiered partners to have better integration into the platform and how does this tie into creating value for Niederman and AWS through partner ecosystems and capabilities? add

bolt Powered by CUBE AI

Michael Liebow, Tech Executive

search

>> Hello. Well, welcome back to theCUBE, here in New York City. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We are here for our East Coast Studio, starting to phase in more programming every day, every week, dropping in for media week, with a great guest here. I believe he's a tech executive, has been there, done that. He's run companies, built companies, built services, knows the cloud, one of our experts in the ecosystem, good friend of theCUBE. Kind of doing some really interesting things right now with private equity, looking at the big picture, and your experience spans all over the place from the big centers of the world all the way through running the big cloud operation type deals. Thanks for coming on. Good to see you.

>> Hey, great to be here, John. I love this setup, man.

>> It's not bad.

>> It's great.

>> Yeah, right?

>> Right over the floor.

>> Well, I just love the Silicon Valley meets Wall Street with wall-to-wall coverage and yeah, Silicon Valley's been the epicenter of that innovation, that first wave of tech. And it's hard to replicate Silicon Valley, but if anyone's actually doing it, it's New York now, because New York has shifted, just in the demographics, kind of that migration out of San Francisco during the, quote, "political bad years." Now they've got a new mayor in there. So we see a lot of top talent to New York from Silicon Valley. Not so much Miami, New York. And so you've seen the big companies here. You're here, Google, Amazon, they all have big buildings downtown.

>> Right.

>> But it's the tech ecosystem that's emerging, because we're now, I think, one and a half generations of that web scale startup scene that grew out of here, the Tumblrs of the world. I mean, we've seen, those are now senior executives. I was talking about Jesse Robbins. He is founder of Chef, okay. The scene here has got a lot of meetups. It's like Palo Alto, but New York. It's massive. Customers are here. It's a flying tech scene right now. It's pretty awesome.

>> Absolutely. And it tends to skew enterprise more so, in terms of the growth, the opportunities, the skill set, the industries.

>> I wonder why the big budgets, fat budgets are insurance, every vertical, financial services.

>> Yeah, yeah, financial services.

>> I mean, that is big time money.

>> No, it's huge.

>> All the people coming out starting companies are coming from those environments. They know how the sausage is made in the enterprise. Which is a good thing.

>> It's been incredible to watch over the last 10 years, in terms of how New York has grown, particularly in the startup scene and the presence of a lot of West Coast VCs here in the city. So the venture community is obviously thriving, but it's not just that. It's the private equity community.

>> Yeah. Talk about the dynamics. Share your thoughts on New York.

>> Well, I'm a born and bred New Yorker.

>> I can tell.

>> I used to, I was bicoastal and I commuted to Silicon Valley for years, worked with a major VC out there. And so, you're not going to ever duplicate Palo Alto. You're not.

>> It's the smart juice. It's like Google. You can't replicate that. It's a unique animal. But New York's got characteristics.

>> Absolutely, and it's thriving. The ad scene, I mean, that's what Google's presence is all about here. And so, when you think about the skills, the talent, the intensity, it's a different kind of intensity. So you have this tech AI intensity in Northern California and people hear about business and finance, and it's thriving. And so that's excitement, and it's attracting a lot of talent.

>> I remember when I moved to Silicon Valley 25 years ago, and I'd love to get your thoughts on how this relates to New York. What I loved about it was that's where the action was. A concentrated area, Palo Alto and Napa City, Sand Hill Road, the VCs. And I was from Boston. I'm like, okay, this beacon. The risk profiles were different. They weren't really leaning into the web at that time. They were putting their toe in the... It was frothy in the West Coast. Term sheets were flying, and it was a great place to be. I was blown away by, wow, everyone here is like me. I love this. My tribe is here. And then, I made a comment on theCUBE, but it had a lot of feedback on it. I said, it's turning into LA. Because at that time, LA was sprawling, you had to drive everywhere, and Hollywood was there, but it was pretty much distributed. It was in LA. LA was big. So I recently called Silicon Valley the new LA of tech, in the sense that it's distributed. You've got San Francisco, you've got Palo Alto, housing prices, you got to drive to, Oakland's getting some stuff. It's like, everything's happening, but it's, you got to go drive places. You don't go downtown Palo Alto, hang out for a couple of weeks and go to four or five meetups like it used to be. It's now all over the place. But that's the bad thing. That's just what it is. New York, it's concentrated.

>> It's concentrated.

>> It's concentrated. Take the subway, you're at three meetups. There was three meetups last night I could have gone to. I went to two of them, and they were great, and they were just technical presentations, kind of like the West Coast days of, hey, we're sharing. So this is definitely happening. Your take on this, you mentioned enterprise. What's your view on this, looking down and seeing how this is generationally changing? Why is it happening? Is it because it's a hot place to be? More elders into the system to be more supportive to the risk? Capital markets forming? What are some of the characteristics?

>> Well, I mean one, first off, I love that you have that Valley perspective as a transplant, and you're spending time here, because as an East Coaster, I used to have to go to the West Coast order to get my fix. And so you're here, which is, that's awesome. So that's number one. Number two, what I really think is what's happening in terms of enterprise adoption, and they need the talent. They need to draw on the people who understand how to build platforms, how to scale a business. And so, that's not necessarily inherent on the East Coast. Yeah, the money's here. There's certainly a ton of money, but it tends to look at more mature parts of the cycle. So as I say, private equity, I mean, some of the major funds are here, and also to whatever degree, obviously in Boston. But there's significant presence here. A lot of money. And the private equity money...

>> They want big outcomes though, so they want dev retooling. What's the, or what...?

>> Well, I mean, they're looking at later stage companies, whereas in Northern California, it's early stage, $0-10 million. They're looking at companies that have matured somewhat. And so, in terms of what part of the investment cycle, it's a bit later on, or the companies have been around for a long time and they're rolling them up, or they're extending into whatever set of adjacency. So the investment theses are all over the place. And so it's exciting here, but for a different set of reasons.

>> By the way, it's a huge private, public market going on with all these secondaries, secondary sales going on pre-public IPOs. We're in the IPO...

>> Well, because we've seen basically a desert in terms of companies IPO-ing, and so there's a longer tail.

>> People stay in private and they still get liquidity. So it's interesting markets. So is that where they're playing? I mean, obviously... Explain the private equity action right now. Obviously with Trump election changes the M&A side pretty significantly.

>> Yeah.

>> So that's going to open up the Komodo to more M&A action.

>> I think, clearly, you just hit the...

>> has been holding everything back.

>> There's been a real kind of hold on the market, almost like a frozen winter, and I really think the thought is on, and you called it out. With the election, we're going to see a huge change, a huge ramp, because the activity, the demand is late. It's sitting there, right? It's just not tapped. So what we're about to see is...

>> Tap that demand.

>> The floodgate is open. Because I talked to all these guys, and that's the problem. A lot of talk, not a lot of action.

>> Yeah. There's no horses on the track. I mean, you can't bet on horses if there's no horses running. So right now we've got to get those horses on the track. In your mind, what's the sequence of events that will prop up this M&A boondoggle about to appear?

>> Well, I thought... But you're right to call it the election. I thought as soon as interest rates started to move, that we would see a bit of a thaw. And I think we haven't tapped into it yet. I think we're seeing more noise than we were, but I think what we need to see is not just an interest rate move, but the environment, an environmental shift. And that's what I think this election has triggered, is that the environment, it's a new ball gate.

>> Yeah. Let's talk about the cloud player, because I remember at the last kind of slow down pre-gen AI, Dave and I were talking on theCUBE about how, okay, Covid hit and we saw potentially a recession right there, but we were speculating that we've never had an environment where you had such great hyperscalers in market. So the economic analysis of what does a recession look like when you have this innovation engine of AWS? Azure just was getting going at that time. Now they're pumping on all cylinders. You've got Google Cloud, Oracle's got a cloud, they've got a database cloud, and they're in multi-cloud. You got the VMware going kind of with Broadcom. Okay. So you have these productivity engines. Apple, I didn't even mention Apple. Okay, you got the big...

>> Even Facebook.

>> I mean, yeah.

>> Meta, excuse me.

>> Actually, I'll call them Facebook. But I even said on theCUBE that Meta could be the next AWS because they have such the GPU stockpile, and they've got the open-source software. So if I'm a developer, if Meta offers a hosted option, I'll go with them. Maybe not AWS, or not.

>> Yeah, I'm going to push back a little bit on that, but okay.

>> Let's go there to say, but let's lay out the hyperscalers. What's their role in this market? Because if I'm a private equity person, I'm looking at roll-ups and then late-stage investments going public, that growth and roll-ups, and then roll-up, take public.

>> So you know I've been in and around cloud for a very long time.

>> Yeah.

>> And the check for cloud has always been follow the money. Who's spending what CapEx? And I think what the market is looking at, particularly in the last week, because if you think about they all announced earnings, what the market was looking at was return on invested capital, almost like Dell from 20, 30 years ago. And so the amount of money, the increase, the billions per quarter. So when you think about NVIDIA and you think about, well, who's driving NVIDIA? There's like, four customers. The whole thing boils down to like, four or five customers who are sucking everything that they can get from NVIDIA and investing in these data sets. And they're also not just investing in NVIDIA, they're building their own chips. So they're contracting out for that. And so, the one that I thought got the most attention in the past week was Amazon, because their numbers were stellar. And not only was their revenue great, but their operating income was off the hook. And so, what people I think took from that was that they're getting the return on that investment, because the level of capital investment was off the hook. Not only that, but Andy said he was going to spend even more. And I'm not trivializing what Google and Amazon... I mean, Microsoft are doing. They're spending as well. But I think what people are looking at, okay, so you're building out data centers, you're setting, you're building the tools, the models, all of the... You're going to war, and you need to arm the soldiers. And so what's happening there is the investment in those platforms and those capabilities, and it's not new. They've been doing this for better than 10 years.

>> Yeah. They get it. The operating leverage you're going to get from that investment, it's going to want to keep their market share. And even that, their 18% number growth number, their base is still growing. And this is sandbag earnings too, because there's more behind it, because this free purchase...

>> I like that. Sandbag. You think they're sandbag?

>> Oh, absolutely. I know they are. You can look at just the year-on-year quarterly growth. Because they, it's lumpy because they have pre-purchases, discount.

>> Yeah.

>> You know how it is. And when I say sandbag, they're not really... Amazon's never been dancing to Wall Street. They dance to their own tune, and Jassy's no different than Bezos, and they're like, what's best for the business? If someone says, hey, I'll drop in a pre-purchase, here's my discount. Well, how do you recognize that over the quarter?

>> Yeah. So the difference between 10 years ago and now, and maybe even longer, is that they have the customers, they have the sales force, they have the software, the platforms, and they're growing. What did Microsoft say? We're at capacity.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, we're not building data centers fast enough in order to address the demand.

>> And not that this is more conspiracy theory. I'm not going to say... I'll say it, but I can't back it up other than hearing chirping from the community in the streets. When I hit these meetups, I hear what founders are talking about. So one strategy could be, I'm not saying this is Amazon's strategy, but if everyone wants GPUs, I better buy them so that they have to buy my service, because I hear entrepreneurs saying, I can't get my hand on GPUs. One, they can't afford them.

>> They can't.

>> And two, they're not available, because guess who's bogarting all the GPUs? Microsoft...

>> They're sourcing agreements in terms of the volume.

>> The allotments they're getting, the location.

>> They're getting more... I mean, what was the big story about Tesla and NVIDIA building, what, 100,000 GPUs in like, 19 days? I mean, so the rate and pace of the ramp and the build out, and that's happening across all the majors. So Facebook, Amazon, Google, Tesla.

>> You know Amazon well. You know the cloud guy. So I asked Matt Garman this question last time I had my exclusive interview with him a couple months ago. I'll also see him next week, actually. I'm going to go to Seattle, meet him pre-re:Invent, my annual curtain raiser.

>> I love when you do that. That's a .

>> But I asked him a couple months ago, you're going to appreciate this, because I was like, Amazon won the game early days with helping people provision hardware so they don't have to buy their own. Put the credit card down. That started the...

>> They invented the market.

>> They invented the market. So Dropbox, all these Airbnb sale... Why would they go build it? They don't know what they're doing yet. So cool on Amazon. Okay. They made it really easy to get storage.

>> To get scale.

>> Yeah, just stand up some pieces, write up the test stuff. Great. Okay, great. Then, what's the AI version of that? Because the developer today was in middle school using Google Docs, now is out coding. They like Google Docs. They like Google Vertex.

>> Right.

>> What are you guys... You're my grandfather's, my father's cloud.

>> Who?

>> That's what I said.

>> Amazon?

>> No, I said the young kids might look at Amazon as...

>> Oh, come on, Bedrock, Code Whisperer.

>> I'm just setting the table for the question.

>> Sage Banker. I mean, they've got platforms.

>> Again, I had to set the table saying, I'm not saying kids are saying that you're my dad's cloud, but they're young enough to be...

>> They are. They are.

>> They are.

>> You're going to be the old man in the cloud.

>> I don't know you, but that's my dad's cloud. No, he had a great answer. So Amazon is not my dad's cloud. So Garmin had a great answer. He said, no, no, that is our customer. So if you're a startup today, you need AWS to do GPUs. They got Tranium, they got Inferential. They got all the best chips, they've got the best infrastructure. He said our bread and butter will continue to be developers and startups and those founders. He was pooh-poohing this idea that they're not going to be irrelevant.

>> They're not going to be.

>> He said he will be relevant to startup founders, period. Took it off the table.

>> Well, that's their bread and butter.

>> And that's their risk.

>> That's always been their butter.

>> And they're great at it. So they're very much aware of what the risks were, and I kind of laid it out over the top. But the point is that that's not wrong. Kids who are coding right now were using Google Docs in middle school to know about collaboration. So the user interfaces, everything has to change.

>> But you're really close to the problem, but that's not the problem.

>> What's the problem?

>> The problem is, for those guys, that segment of the market, they're developing stuff. And it's the same problem we've had in cloud for like, ever. And I actually set up a cloud economics practice here in New York years ago with Accenture, because we understood it's all about the money. And the problem that they're experiencing is, oh, let's develop an AI agent in order to outbound to customers and interact with customers. They have no clue how much that's going to cost.

>> Totally.

>> All right, and they wake up and the bill is just off the hook. So it used to be, I left a server on. I spun up a whole bunch of resources, I left it on, I forgot about it, I came back, and the bill shock, right? Bill shock.

>> Don't leave your lights on.

>> Now it's, I spun up an AI application and I-

>> Trained everything.

>> Yeah, and I let it go.

>> All right.

>> Like a drunken sailor, it's spent.

>> You're done. Yeah, right. There's no refund on that bill. Amazon is like, pay the... Again, this is the point. Look, this is a great conversation. I want to ask you a question because you had such great experience with Accenture. Accenture was the iconic professional services organization.

>> Still is.

>> Still is. How they grew was they scaled up with more people. You add more people, and maybe get some operational leverage.

>> They're up to like, 750,000 people.

>> So I want to... By the way, that's all well-known and they did a great job. Now you see professional services come into tech companies' platforms, and you're seeing professional services firms bolting on operating leverage with cloud platforms, because you're starting to see a productivity gain on that business person. So you're starting to see a 10X business user. Remember the old 10X engineer? Go to the cloud, you get better labor, as a 10X engineer. You're starting to see this service model where the person using the AI, the human in the loop, it could be a professional service consultant, it could be a sales rep, it could be somebody else. If they're not getting a step-up multiple of operating leverage from AI, we say that that's a sub-optimized outcome. So what's your thoughts on this? Because you live that game of scaling up services. When you look at the advantage you can get from a 10X business person with AI, just take that logic, 10X engineer, now as a 10X or maybe more business user, what's your thoughts on that?

>> Well, there's a great term for it. So it's a force multiplier. And so, you're right to call out Accenture. It grew, it multiplied people. In the 2012, 2013, it had like 235,000 employees. Today it's closer to 750,000. Obviously doing business in worldwide, multiple countries. And so what we've seen, and this is the pattern, we've seen this over and over again in terms of, in order to achieve scale. And so you wanted to lower your unit cost in terms of work. And so that's the whole offshoring. Right now, we're seeing the blend between on-site, onshore, nearshore, offshore, and so work is being done in multiple locations. But the shift has always been, I think to your point, business users. Getting business users more productive using the tools, so that they don't have to worry or deal with multiples of other people. And so the force multiplication comes in where, let's say I'm a 100,000-person services firm. I can compete with an Accenture.

>> With a force multiplier.

>> Right, because I could take my hundred, I could be 300,000 people, because from a developer standpoint or from an analyst standpoint, you go down the line. Or I can eliminate certain roles, or make them better. So I guess Meta likes to talk about how they're making advertisers more effective. Google, same thing. So they have their segments, and they give them the tool set and they let them add it. And so the question is for that startup, do I need a bigger call center or can AI scale? And so, what's my cost to have, not a body, but just run it in the cloud or with whatever AI platform?

>> So you agree, this is opportunity for anyone to compete, as well as startups. All right, let's talk about cloud. We've got re:Invent coming up. Andy Jassy will be there. I saw his LinkedIn.

>> I heard that, yeah.

>> Matt Garman's first at re:Invent. Does Garman become a Jassy disciple? Does he go and do the Jassy format, or does he change his game? There's a lot of speculation. How many announcements will they be? Andy would open the floodgates. He just was like a machine. Garman works hard too. He's super smart. I mean, Matt Garman is awesome too. So they're both smart. What does he do? Does he go fast? With Jassy being there, I kind of feel like we're going to go back to the Jassy...

>> Do you think Jassy is going to be on stage?

>> I'm sure.

>> Because I remember years ago where Bezos would be in the audience during Jassy's keynote. He was front row. I was there. He was right there and he was clapping him on.

>> Of course, the boss.

>> It was Andy's show, right? Wall to wall.

>> I think Andy should let Matt his own show, unless he's going to be a set piece.

>> Exactly.

>> Unless there's a set piece with him involved, like an announcement, I would have him do-

>> I think it's his show. I think it's Matt's show.

>> Yeah, it has to be a Matt's show.

>> Yeah.

>> Andy can't take that away from him. But he could be in the front row like Bezos, like I'm the new Bezos.

>> Right.

>> He is the new Bezos, essentially.

>> He is. Right. Runs the show. And so I think that that's an exciting idea, but I don't see Andy going back to being Andy. I can't.

>> Let me, give your thoughts on the ecosystem. I know we both have a lot of contacts over there. Chris Niederman out there, great executive. Chris, if you're watching, we think you're doing great with the partner alliances and all the stuff you're working on. But if you look at what they've done, they've streamlined their global startups, they're back putting meat around that project. You got their ecosystem. And my old taste, the first Chin cloud was, hey, if you have a SaaS app and you're on Amazon, you're in the ecosystem. Yeah, I use compute networking and AC2, and then I use high level services. But now with gen AI being really fast growth for them, Andy called it out as the fastest growing service, making money. Follow the money. What changes in the ecosystem in your opinion? Because we're seeing people play small ball with partners, because this engineering-

>> Small ball?

>> Smaller number of logos is better than bigger number of logos, because in the old days, look at the whole ecosystem part is, the floor's packed, like logo farm, like NASCAR, right? So now-

>> But more has always been better.

>> More is better.

>> Yeah, more has always been better. Yeah. The Microsoft ecosystem, Google, Amazon.

>> Okay, so let's hold that thought, put a pin in the more is better. I'm not disagreeing. But the relationship to the ecosystem. So we're calling it the connected ecosystem.

>> Yeah.

>> So is there a requirement for certain tiered partners to have better integration...

>> That's the word.

>> Into the platform?

>> That's the word.

>> What's your thoughts?

>> Tier. Tier.

>> Yeah.

>> It's always been separated, in terms of elevation. And it's not just like how much business do you do, but how many certified skills do you have? What types of assets, solutions? That's what Niederman cares about, is what kind of solutions are you building on top of the platform and targeting which industries, and how do we line up to create value? So talk about 10X value. If we go back to the return on capital, they're investing all this money, they got a chart. So they need to convert that investment into money, that they need a partner ecosystem to build out those capabilities and engage at a level with the customer or client in order to make something happen.

>> I think the ecosystem opportunity for AWS and all the cloud players is a huge opportunity. I think that's almost on par as CapEx, because CapEx has got IaaS approach that enables, whoever wins that ecosystem battle by incenting partners to pay more, I think wins. It used to be like, oh, here's some MDF money. It's an incentive for training. I think whoever puts gas on that. What's your thoughts? Or is that just...

>> No, I think the proxy for that is certification. So there's no other way to really judge the investment that the partner is making in the platform. And so they have to train the people.

>> Revenue.

>> They test out, so you know how many qualified people there are. I mean certified, the types of certifications. And so that...

>> There's a KPI certification, in your mind.

>> There's no other way to judge, all right? And so people have to maintain those certs over time. So it's not like one and done. So there are people... In Amazon's ecosystem, they're gold jackets. These are people that are just so into the community, they collect certifications like Matchbox cars, right?

>> It's like badges.

>> Yeah, it's the badges. They're very proud of that. And so that is the fundamental kind of design. And so even if you're a small partner, but you go all in on a selected partner, and your people are trained to a certain level, you get certain status.

>> Yeah. Well, I'm psyched to have you on theCUBE. Thanks for coming in as we start to ramp up our contact here on the East Coast. I grew up in New Jersey, by the way, so I've been in California 25 years. So I'm a transplant to California, and now transplanting back to New York, so...

>> This is great. I love having you here. And I started seeing that you were coming out here. I'm like, well, what the heck?

>> Well, you'll be a regular on the show when I start putting the show together in Boston and New York. I mean, there's a real need for tech deep dive podcast style. But definitely, I know that your background, we've been friends for a while, so I know you've got the really unique executive knowledgeable view that can go like a helicopter, deep and then go high. So, great perspective. Just final word, what are you working on now? What are you excited about now? I know you're doing some PE stuff, but what are you personally jazzed up about right now?

>> Personally for me, I was spending a lot of time in Europe, as you know, and developing the same or similar relationships and trying to grow that market. And so I've been back for a while now, and I've been trying to figure out, what's next? What's the next chapter? And I've been talking to so many people to try to get a sense of what's interesting? Where's the talent? Where's the excitement? Where's the money?

>> We have a couple CUBE posts open if you're looking for some work.

>> There we go. Yeah, no, I'll do this.

>> You know in football, the retired coach Bill Belichick's got a great gig right now with the Pat McAfee show.

>> Yeah, no, I'm here. I'm here. This is fun. I enjoy this, all right? And I've always enjoyed it.

>> It's like coach, and then halftime report, next thing you know, they've got a job on the sidelines coaching again. So it's about the commentary. Tech athlete, for sure.

>> Well, that's hot.

>> Just telling me, there's so much. I got to think you got to follow the money, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Take your own advice.

>> Right.

>> Where's the money?

>> Where's the money going? And that's been elusive, because even in the AI market, it's a kind of surge, bust, particularly the last couple of years. So there's no, I wouldn't say it's a clear answer. I think things are happening, and I think with the election, we're poised. I think there could be just a major thrust forward that we've kind of been stalled on, and I'm very excited about that.

>> Michael, great to see you in our studio. I'm John Furrier. We are in the East Coast studio at the New York Stock Exchange. This is our East Coast access point. I call it the super POP, point of presence, a supernode in our network. Got Silicon Valley, we've got Wall Street, connecting it together. It's open source, and of course with adding more networks to our network, and of course, if you have any commentary, send it our way. Thanks for watching.