Dan Tapiero, co-founder and CEO of RoundTable Partners and 10T Holdings, joins theCUBE at the NYSE to discuss his extensive background in finance and his transition into the digital asset ecosystem. With over 20 years in the macro hedge fund industry, Tapiero brings valuable insights as he highlights the role of cryptocurrencies and blockchain in transforming business finance and infrastructure. theCUBE Research team, led by John Furrier, engages Tapiero in an in-depth discussion on the evolution of digital assets and the future of growth in this sector.
Tapiero emphasizes the potential of digital assets, predicting a substantial market value increase from $300 billion to a projected $10 trillion within the next decade. According to Tapiero, the current environment favors companies building this new ecosystem, as businesses generate significant revenue and prepare to enter public markets. The interview explores the role of US regulatory shifts in fostering a supportive atmosphere for cryptocurrencies, along with the importance of positioning the US as a global hub for blockchain technology and digital assets. #DanTapiero #DigitalAssets #theCUBE #NYSE #Crypto #Blockchain #Web3
Explore more about this topic and related insights on SiliconANGLE: siliconangle.com. Subscribe to our blockchain playlist for further discussions: [Blockchain Playlist](#).
00:00 - Intro
00:06 - Cryptocurrency and Blockchain: An Introductory Overview
02:31 - The Journey of Dan Tapiero and the Rise of 10T Holdings
09:09 - Crypto Industry Developments and Challenges
16:31 - Crypto Companies and Public Offerings
20:44 - The Future of Digital Assets
23:10 - The Digital Cultural Revolution: Final Reflections
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Dan Tapiero, DTAP Capital
Dan Tapiero, co-founder and CEO of RoundTable Partners and 10T Holdings, joins theCUBE at the NYSE to discuss his extensive background in finance and his transition into the digital asset ecosystem. With over 20 years in the macro hedge fund industry, Tapiero brings valuable insights as he highlights the role of cryptocurrencies and blockchain in transforming business finance and infrastructure. theCUBE Research team, led by John Furrier, engages Tapiero in an in-depth discussion on the evolution of digital assets and the future of growth in this sector.
Tapiero emphasizes the potential of digital assets, predicting a substantial market value increase from $300 billion to a projected $10 trillion within the next decade. According to Tapiero, the current environment favors companies building this new ecosystem, as businesses generate significant revenue and prepare to enter public markets. The interview explores the role of US regulatory shifts in fostering a supportive atmosphere for cryptocurrencies, along with the importance of positioning the US as a global hub for blockchain technology and digital assets. #DanTapiero #DigitalAssets #theCUBE #NYSE #Crypto #Blockchain #Web3
Explore more about this topic and related insights on SiliconANGLE: siliconangle.com. Subscribe to our blockchain playlist for further discussions: [Blockchain Playlist](#).
00:00 - Intro
00:06 - Cryptocurrency and Blockchain: An Introductory Overview
02:31 - The Journey of Dan Tapiero and the Rise of 10T Holdings
09:09 - Crypto Industry Developments and Challenges
16:31 - Crypto Companies and Public Offerings
20:44 - The Future of Digital Assets
23:10 - The Digital Cultural Revolution: Final Reflections
>> Hello, welcome back to theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, your host here in our NYSE East Coast Access Point. This is a super point of presence. All the signal coming out of New York and connecting that to Silicon Valley and Palo Alto in our Palo Alto Studios. Of course, we cover all the events and we have a great lineup here. It's Partner Day here at the NYSE. Dan Tapiero's here. It's co-founder and CEO of 1RoundTable Partners and 10T Holdings, got five funds, massive investor all over the crypto, understands the market dynamics. And we're going to get into why that's important as companies are continuing to build and transform how they're financed and how they're going to grow in a new way where, hey, store of value, crypto doing great, blockchain is enabling distributed and decentralized infrastructure. This will build the applications of the future. Sure, AI's going to help along the way. All good. Dan, I'm so psyched to have you on theCUBE, here in our New York City office and great pleasure to meet you. You've done so much great work. Thanks for coming on.
Dan Tapiero
>> Thank you. Thank you. Glad to be here. My first time down at the NYSE. It's an awesome site here too. And I think what you're doing is fantastic bringing the tech world together.>> Well, I'm psyched. Have you on, I know folks might not know your history. You've got a deeply rooted history in finance. Give a little quick background on what you're doing and also the funds you got. Roundtable Partners, a little bit different focus than the 10T holdings. Give a quick summary of your background, and your funds because it's some important conversations to be had about where we are right now.
Dan Tapiero
>> Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I was over 20 years in the macro hedge fund business and started my career working for Julian Robertson at Tiger, and then worked for Michael Steinhardt. And then I spent 10 years working for Steve Cohen at SAC Capital and then Stan Druckenmiller at Duquesne. So I had a long career in the money management world. I left that more or less in 2012 and moved into crypto. And then actually more earnestly in 2018, 2019 launching these funds that you've mentioned. And so the first fund I had the idea for in 2019. And I was looking at the overall space. There was I would call it the budding digital asset ecosystem. There was Bitcoin and ETH and a few of the other cryptocurrencies that were prominent.
Dan Tapiero
But I thought to myself, there are many businesses that are going to be building this new ecosystem and I want to start investing in them. And I think the total value of the space at the time was 300 billion. So we're talking about the value of Bitcoin, the value of Ethereum, all the other cryptocurrencies, and the equity in the space, was 300 billion. And I said, I think in the next 10 years, it's a 10 life fund that I launched, the value could get to 10 trillion. And I said to myself, well 300 billion to 10 trillion, that's a 30X. No one is going to believe that that was my view. So I put that view into the name of my fund, which is 10T stands for 10 trillion. So then we raised three funds growth equity.
Dan Tapiero
We're the only growth equity fund in the world, more or less, that exclusively invests in digital assets, blockchain, crypto, Web 3.0 and invested in 23 companies, 1.5 billion, sit on 11 boards. So we're very actively involved in the companies, in the businesses that are in the space. The fourth fund, the 1RT fund was focused on secondary special sits and operating a business. And we're about to launch our fifth fund now, 50T. We've adjusted our view a little bit.>> I like the numbers are getting bigger.
Dan Tapiero
>> I'll tell you why. Because the value of the space today is $5 trillion, 5T. So we went from 300 billion in '19 to 5T. and now it's time to readjust our view and I think 50T in the next 10 years is the goal.>> Not as big of a step up from the other one, but still huge numbers. So I love to see that go up. Little side trivia for the Silicon Angle Cube fans, siliconangle.com, my original website when I started the company 15 years ago, the developer would only take Bitcoin. At that time we had to buy on Silk Road and it was just historic. Now of course, we only had the site for a year. That was the most expensive website. The value would have been good now. Good trivia there. But what really happened was just the industry, as it democratized, Dan, you saw the formation of cyclical stuff. You've probably seen that movie before in your days. Hedge fund, you've seen every up and down. A little bit of a up into 2018, a little bit of arbitrage and then you had a little dip. And then you got the NFTs kick in. So you're starting to see the cultural shift. Then the entrepreneurial muscle gets built. I want you to talk about that because I think we're now what, five years in from what I call true, genuine entrepreneurial muscle where companies are being bought. Entrepreneurship, not the early pioneers who see it early and get in, they're great, love those guys. But the startups, people say, "Hey, I'm going to build a business." whether by accident or by design, that's where the growth is. That's where you are now. A lot of DC, a lot of New York City, some Silicon Valley, but certainly outside the United States, the conversation is US policy is great right now under Trump and people are thrilled in migrations coming in. Now, it's like, okay, money making. Where's the liquidity? How do markets form? What is your vision on this? Because I think it's certainly enthusiasm right now. Confidence is brewing. What is your vision on where we are now as these companies you've been investing? They got to pop, they got to get up there, they got to expand.
Dan Tapiero
>> I think of the 23 companies we own, I think at least I would say 6 to 10 of them in the next 12 to 24 months should be public. We invest only in the obviously private companies. We have companies making hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue now. And they've been private for some time. I think are looking to go public. You've heard some of the names, Circle and eToro, they're in our portfolio. Then there are other companies that we own, Kraken and Gemini, which you've also been talked about as potentially going public. And then we have other companies that we think soon will be ready as well. So I think if you look at the landscape, whether NASDAQ, NYSE, I think to have only one large public crypto blockchain company, which is Coinbase, makes no sense to me. It's 70 billion company. They're absolutely fantastic. But the world and certainly the American investing public has no idea that there are literally dozens of other companies in the digital asset ecosystem that I think are going to become public soon.>> I love the word ecosystem because what you talk about, there's a marketplace, right? Ecosystem equals marketplace. Now you mentioned Coinbase and some of the things. I got to ask you, what's it like in these board meetings? You don't have to give too many dirty secrets, but the true conversations around readiness, fundamentals, as people start to mature, again, this cultural is happening. The old way, we know what that looks like. De-banking, weird rules. It's a shit show.
Dan Tapiero
>> Yeah. That's->> Come on. Let's just call it a shit show. Okay. I'm being polite.
Dan Tapiero
>> That was a terrible period. Last three years, we were all hiding in a bunker more or less. I had companies getting sued left and right for nonsense. It was the most abusive, I think, overreach by a regulator that we've ever seen, certainly in the space. And now all of a sudden it's changed overnight. This administration I think wants to encourage the businesses in the space to be public here in the US. I think look, there are protocols, there are cryptocurrencies, there are founders who they're trying to encourage to come here and start there, or stay here and launch, those are venture projects. My focus is on the more developed companies, the ones that could be public that are making quite a lot of money, that have a mode around their business, that have a niche.>> Yeah, they're at the doorstep.
Dan Tapiero
>> And I think, look, sitting in these meetings, I think that a few of them need to get a little more buttoned up. We're talking about crypto guys. A lot of them are younger guys. And I think they need a few white hairs in the room.>> Exactly.
Dan Tapiero
>> But I think they're getting there. I'm not quite the , but we have some white hairs in the room.>> Well, I mean scar tissue and experience.
Dan Tapiero
>> Yes, yes. Yeah.>> But I'm getting more into the orientation of just mindset.
Dan Tapiero
>> Well, this has been the biggest 180 degree change in our space that's existed. Going back 15 years, everyone was under attack and debanking, as you mentioned. And then you woke up, and then on January 21st or whatever, the world was open for business for us.>> What are some of the dynamics that the NYSE and these exchanges should look at? Obviously, again, you have a portfolio of later stage, I call it on the doorstep, knock on the door. Yeah, they got to get ready. Yeah, whatever. They're going to line up or knock, they can they pick, choose. But then you got the other fund, Roundtable does more early deals.
Dan Tapiero
>> No Roundtable partners we bought in the secondary, we weren't leading deals. We were buying stock in the secondary at massive discounts during the '23 and '24 bear market.>> All right, so were more turnarounds, distressed.
Dan Tapiero
>> No, that was stock in companies that we own and other ones as well, but we were buying them at big discounts. It was a more of a value type vibe.>> Oh, to get positioned.
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct, correct, correct.>> All right, so they're in the stable.
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct.>> They're behind the other .
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct.>> Okay. But you have a good pipeline.
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct.>> But going to one place.
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct.>> Okay. Liquidity.
Dan Tapiero
>> Absolutely.>> And public trading. What needs to happen? What's the current state of the art? Where's your head at on what we have in place and what needs to change?
Dan Tapiero
>> I think what needed to change has changed. I think that instead of having a hostile environment, we now have an environment where the companies are going to be encouraged. So I already know conversations between NYSE and some of my companies, NASDAQ has already been happening. Look, very big picture. I think all value eventually goes on chain. But that world is not here today. That world could be 10 years away. I don't know. You have real-world asset tokenization. Larry Fink talks about that. I think that's a slower process today. What the administration can do to make the US a global hub for crypto, blockchain, Web 3.0, digital assets. It's to get these companies public. And getting public, they got to get a little more buttoned up. They've got to maybe every once in a while put on a tie. I don't know. They've got to get the writing->> No tie.
Dan Tapiero
>> No tie. Okay, we got to get the->> I'm sure jacket's fine.
Dan Tapiero
>> We got to get the right accountants in there. We got to get the audits cleaned up properly and the boards have to look like the way the boards are supposed to look, proper audit committees, et cetera.>> It's super exciting. I think I put my little old-school it hat on and look a geek and be like, okay, are they instrumented? The accounting stuff, okay, whatever. But IT stuff on chain, you're talking about on chain, you're talking about immutable and also measurable, direct measurable, of course it's chain, so it's good. What's the instrumentation? What's the IOT look like? So you have a lot of technology potential. I haven't been tracking on this for a few years, but is there the chain analysis type view where I can look at the data, understand the trading? Because I would imagine that these guys-
Dan Tapiero
>> Absolutely. There are many data companies that give you insight into what is the data on the blockchains happening live. We have companies that are very focused on data like Blockworks. And we have companies like QuickNode that actually run many of the largest chains. You have companies that are now cracking, just releasing their own L2. You've got Coinbase's base, which has been a gateway to DeFi, but I think the public can't immediately digest all of that. It's very complex. But these companies are the gateways to that world. And they're building that world.>> And they're performing.
Dan Tapiero
>> And they're making huge dollars, yes.>> Yes. Okay, this is awesome. So I want to just shift gears just for a little bit. I want to get into something a little bit more macro. I've been saying this on theCUBE, I don't think people truly understood what I was saying, but I was talking to someone my age who's old school market. Now you just go back 15 years when we started my whole website example, I know crypto billionaires who are nouveau, young, and I won't say lucky, they're there. And now you're going to see it in migration of funds of new investor class of young and Bitcoin related crypto investors. And they're going to want to put money to work.
Dan Tapiero
>> 100%.>> Real estate, other vehicles, asset classes, maybe even venture. And all their money's in Bitcoin. Great store of value. No debate there. I'm on that camp. But now I'm like, "Hey, I got a couple billion bucks. I got to put it to work. Buy some real estate." This is a new dynamic. What's your view on that impact? Am I overstating this? Am I overthinking this? Because the dollars involved are significant, So is that going to be an impact?
Dan Tapiero
>> I think it's just starting. I think it's just starting. I think that you hear about all the success stories. You tend not to hear about the failures. There are tons of failures all over the place and many of these chains that people make a fortune on end up going to zero. You see some of the volatility. There is a venture, a super early stage venture part of that world. We don't deal with that, right? We are focused on companies that are doing real things. We can buy proper valuations that we believe have exits either through M&A or IPOs.
And I think the builders of those companies are accruing lots of wealth. And of course, you're not going to have all of your wealth in one asset. As you mentioned, the Bitcoin billionaires, they're quite a few guys walking around. They're mostly going to keep 80, 90% in Bitcoin. But the reality is that this process has been ongoing. The shift in, what you're really talking about is demographics to a younger person who has access to significant wealth. I think it's just been ongoing, but it's happening much more slowly than you might think.>> Because the environment's been hostile. I look at this dam. A dam of water that just opens up and now the existing pool of money, of people. And by the way, culture, legacy, the new flow is coming in.
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct. It's coming.>> Can you scope that for me because what's the magnitude of the scope, not dollars, but impact. Because now you're going to have more propensity integration, more serendipity, more investment style changes, maybe more vehicles.
Dan Tapiero
>> I think the biggest change is the traditional world and the big institutional money, realizing that this is an asset class. This whole area. The digital asset economy, the digital asset ecosystem, that's an asset class. That's the big flow. 99% of the world essentially has zero exposure into the dollar amount. The space is only 5 trillion in size. It's not that big. They are over $800 trillion in total value of total assets out there. So I think it's still early.>> All right. Now coming back to what you said earlier, M&A, IPO, we talked to the IPO landscape, great commentary on that. We should do a deeper dive on that. Maybe do a whole segment on IPO readiness and all the dynamics. You mentioned M&A. Yeah, talk about that dynamic because-
Dan Tapiero
>> Well, actually I can't because the one thing that we've been really focused on is live right now.>> Okay, so you got some things in the .
Dan Tapiero
>> Okay, I can't talk about it, but let me tell you, you'll hear about it.>> Regulatory policy changes though, just more macro, are we in a better friendly regulatory policy environment for M&A?
Dan Tapiero
>> I think for our companies, yes. I think that once the blockchain crypto companies, once you're not being attacked, you have all sorts of mind show that opens up. And I think that's what's going on now. Also, the last four or five months have probably been the single best for my space Q4 and Q1 in terms of revenue of my companies is back to or above the 2021 peaks. So things are really starting to rip, not for all the companies, the NFT, metaverse companies still a little lagging behind. But broadly speaking, and that's why it's a great time also.>> No, that's a great time. I'm so happy for this because I agree with you. It's been this bunkered in environment, so exciting and we're back to enthusiasm and getting more and more confidence. It's funny, in Silicon Valley, the crypto folks with Ethereum and others are coming to Silicon Valley for the first time in three years. They're like, "Stay away from the US."
Dan Tapiero
>> True.>> The piece about M&A, I know you can't talk about it, but now the government and the enthusiasm is high. If I'm Donald Trump sitting here and you're there, and I got my secretary treasury there, had all my advisors, Elon, tell me what to do. If I'm looking for advice, do I continue? What would you say to me if I was Donald Trump right now, if he was here, what would you-
Dan Tapiero
>> There are two things. I think you have to incentivize companies and maybe also the exchange of some, I don't know how it would work to bring some of these companies public to help them along. I don't know how you do that from the government perspective. Maybe->> Let chaos reign?
Dan Tapiero
>> Or no, maybe it's a nod to some of the investment banks here to get going. But look, I think->> The banking's the key, right?
Dan Tapiero
>> Right. To get some of the banks, it was only recently that some of these banks are even allowed to custody a Bitcoin. I think that if things open up on the banking and brokerage front, and there's an idea that look, hey, we need 20, 30, 40, 50 companies that are in the digital asset space. We need these public. We need to have an index. We need to have an ability for people to invest and invest capital and participate.>> Yeah. Correct. A real market
Dan Tapiero
>> And a real market because it's not a real market right now. There are very few players. And these companies are really turning in quite a lot of money. So I think that would be helpful. The other thing I would say is the treasury I think should be very focused on the stable coin market. I think the dollar stable coin market could be of tremendous use to treasury, not only in terms of managing and controlling issuance. But I think also in terms of promoting the dollar as the world's digital currency so that we don't have to deal with the nefarious actors out there. You know who they are, China, Russia, those guys who are always a thorn, always wanting to go the wrong way. I think we're at a stage now where we're ahead. We were falling a little bit behind or neutral with the previous administration. Now we can charge ahead a completely dominate this whole space.>> And the impact, and just to connect the dots, the trajectory, if that continues on that path, is better world position, better flow, financial, stability-
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct.>> Robustness.
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct.>> How would you compare this to some previous things Have you seen in your career? Is there any comparable-
Dan Tapiero
>> No, this is the biggest thing that I've ever seen, the biggest change. I always think of this, the internet was the digitization of ideas and information. This whole world is the digitization of value and money. So there's nothing that's worth more than what's happening today. There's never been as big a structural macro change. And I think->> It's an opportunity.
Dan Tapiero
>> For us to take the lead. This is an early stage market. Kind of reminds me of, you might remember back, imagine being in the mortgage-backed security market in 1981. There was no market. Or '82 or '83, and then Salomon Brothers created it. Well, it's we're at that earliest stage in this market. I think, as I said before, everything eventually will be on chain. But stable coins, if I were the treasury secretary of Trump, as you mentioned here, would be the major area. Major . But also look at this, only four years ago it was zero. No, just zero stable coins settled. Zero. Last year it was over $10 trillion. So just think about the kind of growth that that is. And that happened during a period when the administration was hostile to the space. 0 to 10 trillion.>> unleash the hounds.
Dan Tapiero
>> So what do you think could happen when we have actually proper backing by intelligent people who have a view as to where we're going?>> And I think there's a mission behind this too, so everyone gets worried about getting over their skis. The work you've done, certainly from deploying and investing and doing what you do has been great. But there's also a mission community behind this. Not just hit the trough and drink from it. We're going to do that too. We're going to make money. But there's a bigger picture.
Dan Tapiero
>> Well, I feel part of that. I feel part of this is a way to increase generalized adoption. And I've been saying since 2019 that this was an opportunity for the US to take the lead. And finally it's permeated to the right places and we have the right guys in control. And I think they can steer the ship in the right way. No one wants more regulation, more control, none of that. But we need guys who are leaders who can steer the ship in the right way.>> I was born in the '60s, so I can say this.
Dan Tapiero
>> Me too. How old do you think I was? Me too.>> I can say this. So when I was growing up, I was like, oh yeah, the hippies were not the fifties. And there was that back. That was my parents, they were the madman generation. But they were different. That was the hippie revolution. We are going through a digital cultural revolution right now.
Dan Tapiero
>> Right now. I agree 100%.>> And I think your scope and mindset of this 10T, 50T, I think is light. I think it could be a 100T.
Dan Tapiero
>> Okay, well, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I agree. I think it could be, but->> Well, if you look at how AI can cross pollinate it to decentralize applications, forget about all the digital assets. That's just one category. So I think if you look at the portfolio, forget the store of value, the enablement that could come from this is significant. My eyes are bigger than my stomach right now, but in terms of viewing it, I just think once the shift has happened, and it has happened, and I think the Trump election, the mandate, not just him as a person, but the unanimous vote, whether it was the standing ovation.
Dan Tapiero
>> It was huge. It was huge.>> It was so obvious to anyone under the age of 30 that if you're not doing this, I really don't want to live here. That's the kind of, that is, to me, the most important thing I saw. That was like, hey, all that other stuff. This is like real. I'm a digital native, soon-to-be AI native, soon-to-be decentralized native.
Dan Tapiero
>> Right?>> That's your world. Well, thanks so much for coming in and sharing.
Dan Tapiero
>> Thank you. This has been great. I love that.>> It's been great commentary. Last minute we have left in. Put a plug-in for what you're working on, people watching. What are you excited about? What are you working on?
Dan Tapiero
>> Oh, well, we're just launching->> tips on banking, experience. What do you want to share?
Dan Tapiero
>> We're launching our fifth fund now, 50T that you mentioned. And for the first time, we're going to make a little foray into growth stage tokens, which basically didn't even exist three, four years ago. Most of the portfolio will be equity again in these growth stage companies. But for the first time now, there are actually growth stage tokens of protocols that are producing real revenue that aren't like this pump-and-dump meme stuff. I think that our space, our challenge, is to look towards and focus on the legitimate area. There are a lot of younger people having a lot of fun, pumping stuff up and down. But I don't see that as having lasting value.>> Sounds like volatility like here.
Dan Tapiero
>> Yeah. Well, I think way more than here. Way more than here. You don't have things going down 99% in a week.>> As Andy Grove said, "Let chaos reign and reign in the chaos. "
Dan Tapiero
>> There you go. That's a great note to end on. That's a great note to end on.>> Thank you for coming on.
Dan Tapiero
>> Thank you so much. My pleasure.>> I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We are here in New York City, extracting the signal from the noise. Of course, bringing you all the coverage here in Wall Street, here in our New York Stock Exchange East Coast access point, super point of presence. Thanks for watching.
>> Hello, welcome back to theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, your host here in our NYSE East Coast Access Point. This is a super point of presence. All the signal coming out of New York and connecting that to Silicon Valley and Palo Alto in our Palo Alto Studios. Of course, we cover all the events and we have a great lineup here. It's Partner Day here at the NYSE. Dan Tapiero's here. It's co-founder and CEO of 1RoundTable Partners and 10T Holdings, got five funds, massive investor all over the crypto, understands the market dynamics. And we're going to get into why that's important as companies are continuing to build and transform how they're financed and how they're going to grow in a new way where, hey, store of value, crypto doing great, blockchain is enabling distributed and decentralized infrastructure. This will build the applications of the future. Sure, AI's going to help along the way. All good. Dan, I'm so psyched to have you on theCUBE, here in our New York City office and great pleasure to meet you. You've done so much great work. Thanks for coming on.
Dan Tapiero
>> Thank you. Thank you. Glad to be here. My first time down at the NYSE. It's an awesome site here too. And I think what you're doing is fantastic bringing the tech world together.>> Well, I'm psyched. Have you on, I know folks might not know your history. You've got a deeply rooted history in finance. Give a little quick background on what you're doing and also the funds you got. Roundtable Partners, a little bit different focus than the 10T holdings. Give a quick summary of your background, and your funds because it's some important conversations to be had about where we are right now.
Dan Tapiero
>> Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I was over 20 years in the macro hedge fund business and started my career working for Julian Robertson at Tiger, and then worked for Michael Steinhardt. And then I spent 10 years working for Steve Cohen at SAC Capital and then Stan Druckenmiller at Duquesne. So I had a long career in the money management world. I left that more or less in 2012 and moved into crypto. And then actually more earnestly in 2018, 2019 launching these funds that you've mentioned. And so the first fund I had the idea for in 2019. And I was looking at the overall space. There was I would call it the budding digital asset ecosystem. There was Bitcoin and ETH and a few of the other cryptocurrencies that were prominent.
Dan Tapiero
But I thought to myself, there are many businesses that are going to be building this new ecosystem and I want to start investing in them. And I think the total value of the space at the time was 300 billion. So we're talking about the value of Bitcoin, the value of Ethereum, all the other cryptocurrencies, and the equity in the space, was 300 billion. And I said, I think in the next 10 years, it's a 10 life fund that I launched, the value could get to 10 trillion. And I said to myself, well 300 billion to 10 trillion, that's a 30X. No one is going to believe that that was my view. So I put that view into the name of my fund, which is 10T stands for 10 trillion. So then we raised three funds growth equity.
Dan Tapiero
We're the only growth equity fund in the world, more or less, that exclusively invests in digital assets, blockchain, crypto, Web 3.0 and invested in 23 companies, 1.5 billion, sit on 11 boards. So we're very actively involved in the companies, in the businesses that are in the space. The fourth fund, the 1RT fund was focused on secondary special sits and operating a business. And we're about to launch our fifth fund now, 50T. We've adjusted our view a little bit.>> I like the numbers are getting bigger.
Dan Tapiero
>> I'll tell you why. Because the value of the space today is $5 trillion, 5T. So we went from 300 billion in '19 to 5T. and now it's time to readjust our view and I think 50T in the next 10 years is the goal.>> Not as big of a step up from the other one, but still huge numbers. So I love to see that go up. Little side trivia for the Silicon Angle Cube fans, siliconangle.com, my original website when I started the company 15 years ago, the developer would only take Bitcoin. At that time we had to buy on Silk Road and it was just historic. Now of course, we only had the site for a year. That was the most expensive website. The value would have been good now. Good trivia there. But what really happened was just the industry, as it democratized, Dan, you saw the formation of cyclical stuff. You've probably seen that movie before in your days. Hedge fund, you've seen every up and down. A little bit of a up into 2018, a little bit of arbitrage and then you had a little dip. And then you got the NFTs kick in. So you're starting to see the cultural shift. Then the entrepreneurial muscle gets built. I want you to talk about that because I think we're now what, five years in from what I call true, genuine entrepreneurial muscle where companies are being bought. Entrepreneurship, not the early pioneers who see it early and get in, they're great, love those guys. But the startups, people say, "Hey, I'm going to build a business." whether by accident or by design, that's where the growth is. That's where you are now. A lot of DC, a lot of New York City, some Silicon Valley, but certainly outside the United States, the conversation is US policy is great right now under Trump and people are thrilled in migrations coming in. Now, it's like, okay, money making. Where's the liquidity? How do markets form? What is your vision on this? Because I think it's certainly enthusiasm right now. Confidence is brewing. What is your vision on where we are now as these companies you've been investing? They got to pop, they got to get up there, they got to expand.
Dan Tapiero
>> I think of the 23 companies we own, I think at least I would say 6 to 10 of them in the next 12 to 24 months should be public. We invest only in the obviously private companies. We have companies making hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue now. And they've been private for some time. I think are looking to go public. You've heard some of the names, Circle and eToro, they're in our portfolio. Then there are other companies that we own, Kraken and Gemini, which you've also been talked about as potentially going public. And then we have other companies that we think soon will be ready as well. So I think if you look at the landscape, whether NASDAQ, NYSE, I think to have only one large public crypto blockchain company, which is Coinbase, makes no sense to me. It's 70 billion company. They're absolutely fantastic. But the world and certainly the American investing public has no idea that there are literally dozens of other companies in the digital asset ecosystem that I think are going to become public soon.>> I love the word ecosystem because what you talk about, there's a marketplace, right? Ecosystem equals marketplace. Now you mentioned Coinbase and some of the things. I got to ask you, what's it like in these board meetings? You don't have to give too many dirty secrets, but the true conversations around readiness, fundamentals, as people start to mature, again, this cultural is happening. The old way, we know what that looks like. De-banking, weird rules. It's a shit show.
Dan Tapiero
>> Yeah. That's->> Come on. Let's just call it a shit show. Okay. I'm being polite.
Dan Tapiero
>> That was a terrible period. Last three years, we were all hiding in a bunker more or less. I had companies getting sued left and right for nonsense. It was the most abusive, I think, overreach by a regulator that we've ever seen, certainly in the space. And now all of a sudden it's changed overnight. This administration I think wants to encourage the businesses in the space to be public here in the US. I think look, there are protocols, there are cryptocurrencies, there are founders who they're trying to encourage to come here and start there, or stay here and launch, those are venture projects. My focus is on the more developed companies, the ones that could be public that are making quite a lot of money, that have a mode around their business, that have a niche.>> Yeah, they're at the doorstep.
Dan Tapiero
>> And I think, look, sitting in these meetings, I think that a few of them need to get a little more buttoned up. We're talking about crypto guys. A lot of them are younger guys. And I think they need a few white hairs in the room.>> Exactly.
Dan Tapiero
>> But I think they're getting there. I'm not quite the , but we have some white hairs in the room.>> Well, I mean scar tissue and experience.
Dan Tapiero
>> Yes, yes. Yeah.>> But I'm getting more into the orientation of just mindset.
Dan Tapiero
>> Well, this has been the biggest 180 degree change in our space that's existed. Going back 15 years, everyone was under attack and debanking, as you mentioned. And then you woke up, and then on January 21st or whatever, the world was open for business for us.>> What are some of the dynamics that the NYSE and these exchanges should look at? Obviously, again, you have a portfolio of later stage, I call it on the doorstep, knock on the door. Yeah, they got to get ready. Yeah, whatever. They're going to line up or knock, they can they pick, choose. But then you got the other fund, Roundtable does more early deals.
Dan Tapiero
>> No Roundtable partners we bought in the secondary, we weren't leading deals. We were buying stock in the secondary at massive discounts during the '23 and '24 bear market.>> All right, so were more turnarounds, distressed.
Dan Tapiero
>> No, that was stock in companies that we own and other ones as well, but we were buying them at big discounts. It was a more of a value type vibe.>> Oh, to get positioned.
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct, correct, correct.>> All right, so they're in the stable.
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct.>> They're behind the other .
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct.>> Okay. But you have a good pipeline.
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct.>> But going to one place.
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct.>> Okay. Liquidity.
Dan Tapiero
>> Absolutely.>> And public trading. What needs to happen? What's the current state of the art? Where's your head at on what we have in place and what needs to change?
Dan Tapiero
>> I think what needed to change has changed. I think that instead of having a hostile environment, we now have an environment where the companies are going to be encouraged. So I already know conversations between NYSE and some of my companies, NASDAQ has already been happening. Look, very big picture. I think all value eventually goes on chain. But that world is not here today. That world could be 10 years away. I don't know. You have real-world asset tokenization. Larry Fink talks about that. I think that's a slower process today. What the administration can do to make the US a global hub for crypto, blockchain, Web 3.0, digital assets. It's to get these companies public. And getting public, they got to get a little more buttoned up. They've got to maybe every once in a while put on a tie. I don't know. They've got to get the writing->> No tie.
Dan Tapiero
>> No tie. Okay, we got to get the->> I'm sure jacket's fine.
Dan Tapiero
>> We got to get the right accountants in there. We got to get the audits cleaned up properly and the boards have to look like the way the boards are supposed to look, proper audit committees, et cetera.>> It's super exciting. I think I put my little old-school it hat on and look a geek and be like, okay, are they instrumented? The accounting stuff, okay, whatever. But IT stuff on chain, you're talking about on chain, you're talking about immutable and also measurable, direct measurable, of course it's chain, so it's good. What's the instrumentation? What's the IOT look like? So you have a lot of technology potential. I haven't been tracking on this for a few years, but is there the chain analysis type view where I can look at the data, understand the trading? Because I would imagine that these guys-
Dan Tapiero
>> Absolutely. There are many data companies that give you insight into what is the data on the blockchains happening live. We have companies that are very focused on data like Blockworks. And we have companies like QuickNode that actually run many of the largest chains. You have companies that are now cracking, just releasing their own L2. You've got Coinbase's base, which has been a gateway to DeFi, but I think the public can't immediately digest all of that. It's very complex. But these companies are the gateways to that world. And they're building that world.>> And they're performing.
Dan Tapiero
>> And they're making huge dollars, yes.>> Yes. Okay, this is awesome. So I want to just shift gears just for a little bit. I want to get into something a little bit more macro. I've been saying this on theCUBE, I don't think people truly understood what I was saying, but I was talking to someone my age who's old school market. Now you just go back 15 years when we started my whole website example, I know crypto billionaires who are nouveau, young, and I won't say lucky, they're there. And now you're going to see it in migration of funds of new investor class of young and Bitcoin related crypto investors. And they're going to want to put money to work.
Dan Tapiero
>> 100%.>> Real estate, other vehicles, asset classes, maybe even venture. And all their money's in Bitcoin. Great store of value. No debate there. I'm on that camp. But now I'm like, "Hey, I got a couple billion bucks. I got to put it to work. Buy some real estate." This is a new dynamic. What's your view on that impact? Am I overstating this? Am I overthinking this? Because the dollars involved are significant, So is that going to be an impact?
Dan Tapiero
>> I think it's just starting. I think it's just starting. I think that you hear about all the success stories. You tend not to hear about the failures. There are tons of failures all over the place and many of these chains that people make a fortune on end up going to zero. You see some of the volatility. There is a venture, a super early stage venture part of that world. We don't deal with that, right? We are focused on companies that are doing real things. We can buy proper valuations that we believe have exits either through M&A or IPOs.
And I think the builders of those companies are accruing lots of wealth. And of course, you're not going to have all of your wealth in one asset. As you mentioned, the Bitcoin billionaires, they're quite a few guys walking around. They're mostly going to keep 80, 90% in Bitcoin. But the reality is that this process has been ongoing. The shift in, what you're really talking about is demographics to a younger person who has access to significant wealth. I think it's just been ongoing, but it's happening much more slowly than you might think.>> Because the environment's been hostile. I look at this dam. A dam of water that just opens up and now the existing pool of money, of people. And by the way, culture, legacy, the new flow is coming in.
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct. It's coming.>> Can you scope that for me because what's the magnitude of the scope, not dollars, but impact. Because now you're going to have more propensity integration, more serendipity, more investment style changes, maybe more vehicles.
Dan Tapiero
>> I think the biggest change is the traditional world and the big institutional money, realizing that this is an asset class. This whole area. The digital asset economy, the digital asset ecosystem, that's an asset class. That's the big flow. 99% of the world essentially has zero exposure into the dollar amount. The space is only 5 trillion in size. It's not that big. They are over $800 trillion in total value of total assets out there. So I think it's still early.>> All right. Now coming back to what you said earlier, M&A, IPO, we talked to the IPO landscape, great commentary on that. We should do a deeper dive on that. Maybe do a whole segment on IPO readiness and all the dynamics. You mentioned M&A. Yeah, talk about that dynamic because-
Dan Tapiero
>> Well, actually I can't because the one thing that we've been really focused on is live right now.>> Okay, so you got some things in the .
Dan Tapiero
>> Okay, I can't talk about it, but let me tell you, you'll hear about it.>> Regulatory policy changes though, just more macro, are we in a better friendly regulatory policy environment for M&A?
Dan Tapiero
>> I think for our companies, yes. I think that once the blockchain crypto companies, once you're not being attacked, you have all sorts of mind show that opens up. And I think that's what's going on now. Also, the last four or five months have probably been the single best for my space Q4 and Q1 in terms of revenue of my companies is back to or above the 2021 peaks. So things are really starting to rip, not for all the companies, the NFT, metaverse companies still a little lagging behind. But broadly speaking, and that's why it's a great time also.>> No, that's a great time. I'm so happy for this because I agree with you. It's been this bunkered in environment, so exciting and we're back to enthusiasm and getting more and more confidence. It's funny, in Silicon Valley, the crypto folks with Ethereum and others are coming to Silicon Valley for the first time in three years. They're like, "Stay away from the US."
Dan Tapiero
>> True.>> The piece about M&A, I know you can't talk about it, but now the government and the enthusiasm is high. If I'm Donald Trump sitting here and you're there, and I got my secretary treasury there, had all my advisors, Elon, tell me what to do. If I'm looking for advice, do I continue? What would you say to me if I was Donald Trump right now, if he was here, what would you-
Dan Tapiero
>> There are two things. I think you have to incentivize companies and maybe also the exchange of some, I don't know how it would work to bring some of these companies public to help them along. I don't know how you do that from the government perspective. Maybe->> Let chaos reign?
Dan Tapiero
>> Or no, maybe it's a nod to some of the investment banks here to get going. But look, I think->> The banking's the key, right?
Dan Tapiero
>> Right. To get some of the banks, it was only recently that some of these banks are even allowed to custody a Bitcoin. I think that if things open up on the banking and brokerage front, and there's an idea that look, hey, we need 20, 30, 40, 50 companies that are in the digital asset space. We need these public. We need to have an index. We need to have an ability for people to invest and invest capital and participate.>> Yeah. Correct. A real market
Dan Tapiero
>> And a real market because it's not a real market right now. There are very few players. And these companies are really turning in quite a lot of money. So I think that would be helpful. The other thing I would say is the treasury I think should be very focused on the stable coin market. I think the dollar stable coin market could be of tremendous use to treasury, not only in terms of managing and controlling issuance. But I think also in terms of promoting the dollar as the world's digital currency so that we don't have to deal with the nefarious actors out there. You know who they are, China, Russia, those guys who are always a thorn, always wanting to go the wrong way. I think we're at a stage now where we're ahead. We were falling a little bit behind or neutral with the previous administration. Now we can charge ahead a completely dominate this whole space.>> And the impact, and just to connect the dots, the trajectory, if that continues on that path, is better world position, better flow, financial, stability-
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct.>> Robustness.
Dan Tapiero
>> Correct.>> How would you compare this to some previous things Have you seen in your career? Is there any comparable-
Dan Tapiero
>> No, this is the biggest thing that I've ever seen, the biggest change. I always think of this, the internet was the digitization of ideas and information. This whole world is the digitization of value and money. So there's nothing that's worth more than what's happening today. There's never been as big a structural macro change. And I think->> It's an opportunity.
Dan Tapiero
>> For us to take the lead. This is an early stage market. Kind of reminds me of, you might remember back, imagine being in the mortgage-backed security market in 1981. There was no market. Or '82 or '83, and then Salomon Brothers created it. Well, it's we're at that earliest stage in this market. I think, as I said before, everything eventually will be on chain. But stable coins, if I were the treasury secretary of Trump, as you mentioned here, would be the major area. Major . But also look at this, only four years ago it was zero. No, just zero stable coins settled. Zero. Last year it was over $10 trillion. So just think about the kind of growth that that is. And that happened during a period when the administration was hostile to the space. 0 to 10 trillion.>> unleash the hounds.
Dan Tapiero
>> So what do you think could happen when we have actually proper backing by intelligent people who have a view as to where we're going?>> And I think there's a mission behind this too, so everyone gets worried about getting over their skis. The work you've done, certainly from deploying and investing and doing what you do has been great. But there's also a mission community behind this. Not just hit the trough and drink from it. We're going to do that too. We're going to make money. But there's a bigger picture.
Dan Tapiero
>> Well, I feel part of that. I feel part of this is a way to increase generalized adoption. And I've been saying since 2019 that this was an opportunity for the US to take the lead. And finally it's permeated to the right places and we have the right guys in control. And I think they can steer the ship in the right way. No one wants more regulation, more control, none of that. But we need guys who are leaders who can steer the ship in the right way.>> I was born in the '60s, so I can say this.
Dan Tapiero
>> Me too. How old do you think I was? Me too.>> I can say this. So when I was growing up, I was like, oh yeah, the hippies were not the fifties. And there was that back. That was my parents, they were the madman generation. But they were different. That was the hippie revolution. We are going through a digital cultural revolution right now.
Dan Tapiero
>> Right now. I agree 100%.>> And I think your scope and mindset of this 10T, 50T, I think is light. I think it could be a 100T.
Dan Tapiero
>> Okay, well, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I agree. I think it could be, but->> Well, if you look at how AI can cross pollinate it to decentralize applications, forget about all the digital assets. That's just one category. So I think if you look at the portfolio, forget the store of value, the enablement that could come from this is significant. My eyes are bigger than my stomach right now, but in terms of viewing it, I just think once the shift has happened, and it has happened, and I think the Trump election, the mandate, not just him as a person, but the unanimous vote, whether it was the standing ovation.
Dan Tapiero
>> It was huge. It was huge.>> It was so obvious to anyone under the age of 30 that if you're not doing this, I really don't want to live here. That's the kind of, that is, to me, the most important thing I saw. That was like, hey, all that other stuff. This is like real. I'm a digital native, soon-to-be AI native, soon-to-be decentralized native.
Dan Tapiero
>> Right?>> That's your world. Well, thanks so much for coming in and sharing.
Dan Tapiero
>> Thank you. This has been great. I love that.>> It's been great commentary. Last minute we have left in. Put a plug-in for what you're working on, people watching. What are you excited about? What are you working on?
Dan Tapiero
>> Oh, well, we're just launching->> tips on banking, experience. What do you want to share?
Dan Tapiero
>> We're launching our fifth fund now, 50T that you mentioned. And for the first time, we're going to make a little foray into growth stage tokens, which basically didn't even exist three, four years ago. Most of the portfolio will be equity again in these growth stage companies. But for the first time now, there are actually growth stage tokens of protocols that are producing real revenue that aren't like this pump-and-dump meme stuff. I think that our space, our challenge, is to look towards and focus on the legitimate area. There are a lot of younger people having a lot of fun, pumping stuff up and down. But I don't see that as having lasting value.>> Sounds like volatility like here.
Dan Tapiero
>> Yeah. Well, I think way more than here. Way more than here. You don't have things going down 99% in a week.>> As Andy Grove said, "Let chaos reign and reign in the chaos. "
Dan Tapiero
>> There you go. That's a great note to end on. That's a great note to end on.>> Thank you for coming on.
Dan Tapiero
>> Thank you so much. My pleasure.>> I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We are here in New York City, extracting the signal from the noise. Of course, bringing you all the coverage here in Wall Street, here in our New York Stock Exchange East Coast access point, super point of presence. Thanks for watching.
