At the NYSE Wired: Crypto Trailblazers event, theCUBE’s John Furrier sits down with Sébastien Badault, VP of Enterprise at Ledger, to discuss how the company is meeting the security and governance demands of a rapidly maturing crypto industry. Badault outlines Ledger’s evolution from securing retail crypto users to delivering enterprise-grade custody, governance and integrated services such as off-exchange trading (Tradelink), staking, treasury management and payments. With institutions entering the market in force, he explains why security remains the foundation for scaling crypto adoption and how Ledger is helping traditional finance (TradFi) players bridge into digital assets with proven, hardware-backed solutions.
The conversation delves into the enterprise mindset toward crypto adoption, the impact of regulatory clarity from the GENIUS Act and stablecoin frameworks and the technical integrations needed to support a multi-chain future. Badault also shares insights on customization for institutional clients, the convergence of TradFi and crypto ecosystems and the role of Ledger’s global culture in driving innovation. Whether it’s banks, asset managers or fintechs, the message is clear: securing custody is no longer optional; it’s the starting point for unlocking crypto’s enterprise-scale potential.
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Sebastien Badault, Ledger
At the NYSE Wired: Crypto Trailblazers event, theCUBE’s John Furrier sits down with Sébastien Badault, VP of Enterprise at Ledger, to discuss how the company is meeting the security and governance demands of a rapidly maturing crypto industry. Badault outlines Ledger’s evolution from securing retail crypto users to delivering enterprise-grade custody, governance and integrated services such as off-exchange trading (Tradelink), staking, treasury management and payments. With institutions entering the market in force, he explains why security remains the foundation for scaling crypto adoption and how Ledger is helping traditional finance (TradFi) players bridge into digital assets with proven, hardware-backed solutions.
The conversation delves into the enterprise mindset toward crypto adoption, the impact of regulatory clarity from the GENIUS Act and stablecoin frameworks and the technical integrations needed to support a multi-chain future. Badault also shares insights on customization for institutional clients, the convergence of TradFi and crypto ecosystems and the role of Ledger’s global culture in driving innovation. Whether it’s banks, asset managers or fintechs, the message is clear: securing custody is no longer optional; it’s the starting point for unlocking crypto’s enterprise-scale potential.
>> Welcome back everyone, theCUBE here at the NYSE banner day here, crypto IPO, another one went up, popped off pretty nicely off from an original pricing of 37. That was the very bullish environment, so to speak. And the IPOs are lining up and crypto is going mainstream. And more and more normal people, non-techies are getting in. The financial institutions are aligning, the regulations have clarity as the GENIUS Act and stable coins are all driving the momentum for the linchpin that is the financial systems as it continues to go mainstream. We've always had great guests. This is part of our Crypto Trailblazers ongoing series we're doing with the leaders who are making it happen. We got Sébastien Badault here, VP of Enterprise at Ledger, phenomenal company, headquartered in Paris, France. We've visited them during the Raise conference, had a chance to visit their office. Great suite of products. Sébastien, you lead the enterprise group.
Sebastien Badault
>> I do.>> Thank you for coming on theCUBE. Great to see you-
Sebastien Badault
>> Thank you for having me. Great to see you too.... >> in New York. It's hot in Paris these days temperature wise and technically hot, so welcome back.
Sebastien Badault
>> Yeah, it is. I mean it's amazing to see that Paris is video center for crypto. There's Ledger of course, but not only, there's also Kiln, Morpho, Sandbox, a lot of players. We actually Flodesk that it's a company that Ledger's invested in and that is actually in our offices as well. We call it... It's like crypto like video in the middle of the city. And actually a lot of them are within walking distance from us. And so there's a real, and there's been for a while, a real an energy around the space, etc, and creativity.>> French are known for their engineering. I've interviewed Benoît Dageville from Snowflake. They're very polite. That's a cute solution, which is Ccde words in France for not that elegant, but you guys are doing great. Again, what's impressive about Ledger is how you guys have morphed into a suite of solutions across not just users with custody and wallet, but also in the enterprise. There's a lot going on. Give us an update. What is the enterprise business like for Ledger? What are some of the things you're focused on and what are you optimizing for?
Sebastien Badault
>> So I think what's interesting is that we're growing with the industry, right? I mean, we've been around for 11 years now. We secure 20% of the world's crypto. And when we started out, the only people that were trading or needed to secure their crypto were users. Crypto was a retail business at first. And then as it grew, we started having more and more companies coming to us and saying, "Well, we love your consumer solution, but we need something that's enterprise grade. Basically, can you build it for us?" And that's what we set out to do about five years ago. And now what's happening is that the new wave... The wave that's happening right now is really, really an institutional wave. And I think that what we're focusing on is to go beyond what we started doing, which was obviously security because that's our DNA and governance because that's what they needed as companies. They need governance because you cannot have one person holding the keys. And on top of that, what we're building more and more is services on top of that. So if you are a company in crypto, what are you going to want to do? So you want to stake your assets, you're going to want to trade. We built an off-exchange trading platform called Tradelink. That's something that we've been working on quite a bit in the past year. We're thinking about payments because obviously with stable coins, etc, we're seeing a lot of desire there and really treasury management as a whole. So we're trying to go along with what the needs of the markets are. And then the other thing that I'll say, and the big shift and the big change is that when your industry... You can think about security as a foundation. So it's the foundation to a home. You need to have security in your home and you need to have strong foundations for your home to stand tall. As the home gets bigger and bigger, which is what's happening right now in the crypto market. You need more and more security. And the home is getting a lot bigger because the people coming in, the players need and they're used to having these secure tools. So I think what's really interesting for us is that we've provided this for the crypto market for the best five years, and now we're having the discussions to help banks, traders, etc, hedge funds, etc, to who are coming from the trot fire space, really be able to trade crypto and go beyond just the ETFs piece, but also be able to hold their own crypto and then be able to do whatever they want.>> I mean, it's interesting. You become what you're known for in life. That's the old saying as it goes. If you think about what you guys have done, a team with the hardware wallet and then how it's developed, you kind of just rolling with the evolution, right? So that's cool, but you really nailed security because you had to. And so that kind of pays dividends. You mentioned security multiple times. If you come into the enterprise, the bar is very high.
Sebastien Badault
>> 100%.>> Okay. So when you start looking at solutions, you can mix and match solutions that maybe that's a way you can compose some new services and technologies together. But it's rooted in the security. Talk about that aspect of it because once you get the wallet, you've got essentially the mindshare because that's where the money is. So now you have other things going on around it. Take us through the growth out of the position of just nailing the security.
Sebastien Badault
>> Yeah, so I think what's interesting is that if you look at the two targets, right? Like the crypto natives and the new people coming into the space, the players, what's happened with the crypto natives that they understand and they see more and more that hacks and issues in the space, they're not going away. We had by a bit not so long ago, that I think was a wake-up call for a lot of people. So a lot of companies that maybe were thinking, "No, we're okay, we've got an internal solution that they had kind of done on their own." They're like, "No, we need the best in the game and we need what Ledger provides, which is HSM and governance around that HSM, etc," which is really the gold standard, if you will, of what you can do in terms of security. And then the new people coming in, again, they're used->> They want ease of use.
Sebastien Badault
>> They want ease of use, and they want people who know what to do in that space and they're not afraid to spend to actually get the best security because that's what they've been doing for years. All the legacy systems cost a lot of money. If you look at a JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs or whatever company, they spend millions of dollars in security every year. So spending a little bit->> When you're doing trillions, you can spend a few pennies in their mind, which is a 10 billion IT budget.
Sebastien Badault
>> Exactly.>> They talk about that because I think one of the things that's interesting is that I know a lot of SecOps friends, OpSec, whatever you want you call it that are hardcore, I don't know, I got this covered. And they're really hardcore. They're getting hacked because the social engineering, they know when they're writing code and they know when they're voting. So the social engineering will work on anybody. So having that nailed down is key. So enterprises clearly get that, but what are they looking at? I got to ask, what's on the mind of the enterprise right now? What's the psychology? Where are they at in the journey? What are some of the use cases? I can see the crypto holdings, I'll say everyone's getting into it. So that's more fluid money flowing around.
Sebastien Badault
>> I think what's interesting is that... And I'll make a parallel to what I've seen maybe in my prior days with the wave towards E-commerce, towards the internet, when I was working at Google or Amazon, etc, I always felt that traditional players were way behind and it took them a long time to catch the digital wave. But in finance, I really feel that in discussions that I have with all these banks, etc, they're actually very ahead. And a lot of them have a bunch of developers internally and they have projects, etc. I think they were waiting.>> They had POCs going on right now.
Sebastien Badault
>> And they're waiting for the go for the wave to come, but they were prepared for that wave shall it come. So I think that's a really important point. And then next to that, they also understand and they know that at one point or another you can build on your own. There's a lot of things that you can build on your own if you have the means. And they definitely have the means.>> And the developers.
Sebastien Badault
>> And the developers.>> Money and developers.
Sebastien Badault
>> So the means to be able to set up for sure. But at one point or another, if someone like we have has been working on a technology for years and years, there's something that we've been able to build and there's a moat that no one else can go out and just say, "Oh, I'm going to do the same thing.">> There's economies of scale, we're all over the place.
Sebastien Badault
>> And we've built an operating system, we've built a secure technology. As you've probably mentioned before, the chip in your credit card is a French invention. That's pretty much what the HSM is within Ledger Enterprise. So the discussion that we're having is we're trying to at least on the one hand at least share with them what we know and what we understand about the importance of security and what works. And then trying to see how we can partner and help them out either by selling our technology or by building something together with them.>> I mean that's the theme in the Crypto Trailblazers episodes. This is our fourth event. It's going to be probably continuing. It's more demand. The IPO today showed, again, the market is underestimated on the private side, public appetite is huge. So you guys got to be pumped at Ledger, not going to go there.
Sebastien Badault
>> It's always good news to see people in the space. We have friends at Bullish, etc, so congratulating to them and then they'll be sending them notes to congratulate them now that the bell has rung. But it definitely shows and that there is... I think the market's been just waiting for this, been waiting for this clarity, but also we're really seeing a shift I think for->> There's money involved, there's real money.
Sebastien Badault
>> There's real money involved. And then the other thing is that I think for a long time the ethos was it's like crypto versus fiat, etc. And I think that we're coming to a place where TradFi is really adopting crypto, but it's kind of like more of a partnership than one taking the other one over. And that's the way it should be.>> And the theme is that people in finance just want to do their thing.
Sebastien Badault
>> Exactly,>> Whether it's trading or on the institutional side, and they understand the buy, build. They've been doing IT for generations. You mentioned Amazon, that CloudWave was very elementary, build three building blocks and now you had abstraction of services. So that scale-
Sebastien Badault
>> But it took a while. It took a while. Right from the beginning the technology was there, and that's always the case. Technology is there, but it takes a little while for people to try it out, say, "Okay, it actually makes sense." And I think that now what they're seeing and what everyone's seeing is that it works because we've been building this technology for years. So it actually works. It is faster, it is cheaper. The rails that we had were old and needed a change, and it's an opportunity. And in finance, what you're looking for, you're looking for opportunities, you're looking for hedges, crypto becomes an edge and some people are .>> It's interesting. So yes, they're going to go to solutions that are proven. Totally see that platforms as well is a huge trend. We've seen that on the cloud, cybersecurity. The area that's interesting is, it's interesting you said they're waiting because if you look at the sentiment of the enterprise on the bank side, they've all had stuff going. They were waiting for the green light. You see, the GENIUS Act and stable coins are two moments here in the US where it's like, "Okay, there's going to be some clear rules of the road, unlike the other regimes that were in power." So that's going to open up the floodgates. We see that. And two, the enterprises all know from the gen AI and from their own business is that their data is their moat, data is their intellectual property, data is their money. And so you're starting to see the emergence of digital assets on new chains. Now, one of the story lines here this week is a lot of chains, we heard Circle's got a chain, we hear Stripe's going have a chain. So, okay, they're going to be series of chains, and that's more assets on chains. So how does that fit into what you're looking at? Because that's going to be a private cloud almost, private chain.
Sebastien Badault
>> There's a couple of things that are really interesting. It's essentially that you took Circle and Stripe because at one point or another, when you look at what Circle's doing, are they going head-to-head with Stripe, for example, to go after that payment and not just do the stable coin fee. So that's an important point. And then what's very interesting is that's something that we've been working on quite a bit in the past few months is that we really need to help integrate all of these chains. Because if you're going to be doing treasury management, maybe you're going to be working with Circle's coin, or you're going to be working with Fidelity's or whoever is building one. But that requires an integration. That's one of some of the things that we're working on. It's not that easy because each chain is very->> It's exciting because it's almost like building networks that war one's not disparate, but they're going to connect them.
Sebastien Badault
>> Absolutely.>> And so you got to have the public chain, you can have your own chain. If you've got assets you want to keep them have custom features. Okay, cool. Stable coins too. They can have stable coins, but they already have their own stable coin. They should.
Sebastien Badault
>> They do and they do. And there'll be more and more right now that the GENIUS Act is in, who knows, Amazon might have a stable coin tomorrow. Walmart might have a stable coin, it would make sense.>> Everyone that's doing any commerce will probably have a stable coin.
Sebastien Badault
>> And then down the line, that means you do need to have custody around that stable coin. You need to secure that stable coin. And that's when we come in.>> You guys step up to the plate.
Sebastien Badault
>> The opportunity is right there.>> All right, so what's the demand like? Because clearly the trend is your friend, right now, custody is going to be a very key part, settlement, clearing, big parts, payment rails. What's that mean for you guys? What's some of the things you're seeing blooming now in the market?
Sebastien Badault
>> I mean, I think stable is obviously one of the big things and I think that it's going to grow and explode probably in the next year. So there's a lot of discussions happening around that for sure. But also we're just seeing a lot of money coming in, like asset managers coming in and wanting to have access to this different liquidity. The fact that it's absolutely global as well is very important. The fact that you can go and connect with different exchanges in different parts of the world and through our technology have access to Japanese market, the Korean market, all these different things. I think there's a big opportunity there as well. And then what I was saying, I think you hit it on the head on the new coins and the foundations, which is one of the things that we're really concentrating.>> One of the things you guys have, I noticed on the business side, obviously the developer, you got great traction. You got an event coming up in October right now for developers, big part of your community. But as businesses are coming on, you mentioned solutions. How custom are they? Are they all... Is it a feature or a bug to be a one-off? Because beauty's in the eye of the beholder as they say. So if I'm an enterprise, I have needs, talk about the customization options. What do you guys do there? What's the conversations? What are they?
Sebastien Badault
>> So it's a mix. We do have a product where that's plug and play. You come in and you talk to us and we can integrate you in a week and you can have the Ledger enterprise solution. But there is a customization aspect because the whole governance is going to be fully customized to what your needs are. So you're going to decide who are the different signers, what are the levels of signature that you need someone to get integrated in or not mean? So it's really specific to every company's needs.>> You got to do the work, get the requirements, do the classic integration.
Sebastien Badault
>> And we do it, we will hold your hand through the process, which is the onboarding process, but there's customization here. But then when you're using the product, it's the same product. You have access to all these , then you decide which the apps you want to connect to. Do you want to do staking? I mean within the product you decide how you use it, but it's the same product. And then to your point, we do have discussions with some very large players who have what I was mentioning earlier, who have very specific needs, which would be integrating some of our solutions and then make it available to some of the retail users. And that would be a custom, but that's not the majority. The majority is just people coming in through the door on Tradelink, on our off exchange trading platform, same thing. They want to customize their network. They want to say, "I want to pledge my assets with this custodian and have access to these different exchanges." That's going to be fully custom. You're going to decide, it's basically your own network->> You're wiring it up.
Sebastien Badault
>> network that you're doing, but you're using the same technology. So it's customization within something that the technology layer, which is really the security layer is the same. We don't make more security here or there. The security is always .>> I mean, you guys are grounded in security. That's what I like about your company. So I have to ask you on a personal note, you said you worked at Amazon, Google, Alibaba. So you've been an Amazonian, you've been a Googler.
Sebastien Badault
>> I have.>> I can't speak to the Alibaba culture, but what's the culture like at Ledger? Is it Amazonian-like? Is it Googler-like? What is the vibe? Obviously your office is spectacular, in Paris, so anyone's ever been to Ledger's office go check it out if you're in town there. But what's the culture like at Ledger? Because the pace of play is so high right now. A friend of mine went on vacation and they came back a week later and stuff on the plate is massive. What's it like at Ledger?
Sebastien Badault
>> So I think I'll say a couple of things. I think the first part is that one thing that's common is the passion. And I think the level of passion within Ledger employees about the space, how passionate about crypto is really incredible. And I think that's true of the space as a whole, but it's definitely true within Ledger. People just really believe in the crypto and it's very mission-driven. And I was at Amazon in '99 where .>> That was a mission.
Sebastien Badault
>> early on, and there was really a mission.>> People didn't understand what was going on.
Sebastien Badault
>> No. And also there was this idea of saying, "We want to make culture available to all," right, if you're in the middle of Wisconsin or whatever, and you don't have a bookstore that's within a 50 miles or whatever, have every book delivered to your door with a revolution. And for Google, it was a revolution also of making advertising available to, all right, you're a small business right now, what can you do? You could do Yellow Pages, etc. No, right now you have .>> Access, selection.
Sebastien Badault
>> Exactly. So there was a mission between these things. And so I really feel that, and that's something very common at Ledger. It's the first French company that I work for, but it's not French at all, right? If you look at our... I mean it's French in the sense that we are based in France, etc, but then the culture, it's really international. When we look executive committee, etc, it's people from everywhere. You had Arion, Ian Rogers at CXO, I mean, it's people from the UK and I really love the fact that it's very diverse and then the mindset is very international. And then the last thing I'll say is that I think Amazon is... Your culture is very rooted in who your CEO is. And I think that Amazon was very rooted in business because Bezos was coming from finance and was a business guy. Whereas Google is very rooted in product because it came from engineers like Larry and Sergey were and our engineers. And I think Ledger is kind of a mix between the two because it's founded by engineers. It has that very big product culture.>> It's a hybrid.
Sebastien Badault
>> And the CEO today is definitely a business guy. So it's this hybrid between the two. So it's really interesting to see how it works both ways.>> Well, you guys are doing great. The business market is phenomenally set up for folks that have done the work and are growing.
Sebastien Badault
>> We're continuing to do it.>> Final question for you, Sébastien. What is your needs now? What's on your mind? What's on your plate? What are your goals? Put a plug in for Ledger. What are you working on? What are some of the cool things?
Sebastien Badault
>> I mean, I think what we want is just to help as many institutions in the space, especially here in the US because I wouldn't have told you this six months ago, but clearly we see so much opportunity here. So anyone that has security needs or wants to really recreate our treasury, etc, that give us a call. We'll gladly sit down with you guys and find... Because that's what we're trying to build. We're trying to build really strong partnerships with some of the biggest players in the space. We're doing that, and we hope that that's going to be basically .>> Yeah, and the market's maturing in the sense of the technology, the money's flowing, the plumbing's being recast.
Sebastien Badault
>> And that's what we're trying to help build.>> Sure. Yeah. Congratulations. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. The Crypto Trailblazers series, NYSE Wired and theCUBE partnership, really exposing the innovation curve, the demand, the disruptive enablement that's coming from this new wave that's really changing how we work, play, and interact, and certainly monies involved, digital assets all going to be on the chain. So again, the world is changing super fast. The IPO market is evidence that the private market is undervalued relative to what's happening. The world is moving super fast, and of course, we're doing our best to keep up and bring that to you. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante here in New York City at the NYSE for our Crypto Trailblazer series. Thanks for watching.
>> Welcome back everyone, theCUBE here at the NYSE banner day here, crypto IPO, another one went up, popped off pretty nicely off from an original pricing of 37. That was the very bullish environment, so to speak. And the IPOs are lining up and crypto is going mainstream. And more and more normal people, non-techies are getting in. The financial institutions are aligning, the regulations have clarity as the GENIUS Act and stable coins are all driving the momentum for the linchpin that is the financial systems as it continues to go mainstream. We've always had great guests. This is part of our Crypto Trailblazers ongoing series we're doing with the leaders who are making it happen. We got Sébastien Badault here, VP of Enterprise at Ledger, phenomenal company, headquartered in Paris, France. We've visited them during the Raise conference, had a chance to visit their office. Great suite of products. Sébastien, you lead the enterprise group.
Sebastien Badault
>> I do.>> Thank you for coming on theCUBE. Great to see you-
Sebastien Badault
>> Thank you for having me. Great to see you too.... >> in New York. It's hot in Paris these days temperature wise and technically hot, so welcome back.
Sebastien Badault
>> Yeah, it is. I mean it's amazing to see that Paris is video center for crypto. There's Ledger of course, but not only, there's also Kiln, Morpho, Sandbox, a lot of players. We actually Flodesk that it's a company that Ledger's invested in and that is actually in our offices as well. We call it... It's like crypto like video in the middle of the city. And actually a lot of them are within walking distance from us. And so there's a real, and there's been for a while, a real an energy around the space, etc, and creativity.>> French are known for their engineering. I've interviewed Benoît Dageville from Snowflake. They're very polite. That's a cute solution, which is Ccde words in France for not that elegant, but you guys are doing great. Again, what's impressive about Ledger is how you guys have morphed into a suite of solutions across not just users with custody and wallet, but also in the enterprise. There's a lot going on. Give us an update. What is the enterprise business like for Ledger? What are some of the things you're focused on and what are you optimizing for?
Sebastien Badault
>> So I think what's interesting is that we're growing with the industry, right? I mean, we've been around for 11 years now. We secure 20% of the world's crypto. And when we started out, the only people that were trading or needed to secure their crypto were users. Crypto was a retail business at first. And then as it grew, we started having more and more companies coming to us and saying, "Well, we love your consumer solution, but we need something that's enterprise grade. Basically, can you build it for us?" And that's what we set out to do about five years ago. And now what's happening is that the new wave... The wave that's happening right now is really, really an institutional wave. And I think that what we're focusing on is to go beyond what we started doing, which was obviously security because that's our DNA and governance because that's what they needed as companies. They need governance because you cannot have one person holding the keys. And on top of that, what we're building more and more is services on top of that. So if you are a company in crypto, what are you going to want to do? So you want to stake your assets, you're going to want to trade. We built an off-exchange trading platform called Tradelink. That's something that we've been working on quite a bit in the past year. We're thinking about payments because obviously with stable coins, etc, we're seeing a lot of desire there and really treasury management as a whole. So we're trying to go along with what the needs of the markets are. And then the other thing that I'll say, and the big shift and the big change is that when your industry... You can think about security as a foundation. So it's the foundation to a home. You need to have security in your home and you need to have strong foundations for your home to stand tall. As the home gets bigger and bigger, which is what's happening right now in the crypto market. You need more and more security. And the home is getting a lot bigger because the people coming in, the players need and they're used to having these secure tools. So I think what's really interesting for us is that we've provided this for the crypto market for the best five years, and now we're having the discussions to help banks, traders, etc, hedge funds, etc, to who are coming from the trot fire space, really be able to trade crypto and go beyond just the ETFs piece, but also be able to hold their own crypto and then be able to do whatever they want.>> I mean, it's interesting. You become what you're known for in life. That's the old saying as it goes. If you think about what you guys have done, a team with the hardware wallet and then how it's developed, you kind of just rolling with the evolution, right? So that's cool, but you really nailed security because you had to. And so that kind of pays dividends. You mentioned security multiple times. If you come into the enterprise, the bar is very high.
Sebastien Badault
>> 100%.>> Okay. So when you start looking at solutions, you can mix and match solutions that maybe that's a way you can compose some new services and technologies together. But it's rooted in the security. Talk about that aspect of it because once you get the wallet, you've got essentially the mindshare because that's where the money is. So now you have other things going on around it. Take us through the growth out of the position of just nailing the security.
Sebastien Badault
>> Yeah, so I think what's interesting is that if you look at the two targets, right? Like the crypto natives and the new people coming into the space, the players, what's happened with the crypto natives that they understand and they see more and more that hacks and issues in the space, they're not going away. We had by a bit not so long ago, that I think was a wake-up call for a lot of people. So a lot of companies that maybe were thinking, "No, we're okay, we've got an internal solution that they had kind of done on their own." They're like, "No, we need the best in the game and we need what Ledger provides, which is HSM and governance around that HSM, etc," which is really the gold standard, if you will, of what you can do in terms of security. And then the new people coming in, again, they're used->> They want ease of use.
Sebastien Badault
>> They want ease of use, and they want people who know what to do in that space and they're not afraid to spend to actually get the best security because that's what they've been doing for years. All the legacy systems cost a lot of money. If you look at a JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs or whatever company, they spend millions of dollars in security every year. So spending a little bit->> When you're doing trillions, you can spend a few pennies in their mind, which is a 10 billion IT budget.
Sebastien Badault
>> Exactly.>> They talk about that because I think one of the things that's interesting is that I know a lot of SecOps friends, OpSec, whatever you want you call it that are hardcore, I don't know, I got this covered. And they're really hardcore. They're getting hacked because the social engineering, they know when they're writing code and they know when they're voting. So the social engineering will work on anybody. So having that nailed down is key. So enterprises clearly get that, but what are they looking at? I got to ask, what's on the mind of the enterprise right now? What's the psychology? Where are they at in the journey? What are some of the use cases? I can see the crypto holdings, I'll say everyone's getting into it. So that's more fluid money flowing around.
Sebastien Badault
>> I think what's interesting is that... And I'll make a parallel to what I've seen maybe in my prior days with the wave towards E-commerce, towards the internet, when I was working at Google or Amazon, etc, I always felt that traditional players were way behind and it took them a long time to catch the digital wave. But in finance, I really feel that in discussions that I have with all these banks, etc, they're actually very ahead. And a lot of them have a bunch of developers internally and they have projects, etc. I think they were waiting.>> They had POCs going on right now.
Sebastien Badault
>> And they're waiting for the go for the wave to come, but they were prepared for that wave shall it come. So I think that's a really important point. And then next to that, they also understand and they know that at one point or another you can build on your own. There's a lot of things that you can build on your own if you have the means. And they definitely have the means.>> And the developers.
Sebastien Badault
>> And the developers.>> Money and developers.
Sebastien Badault
>> So the means to be able to set up for sure. But at one point or another, if someone like we have has been working on a technology for years and years, there's something that we've been able to build and there's a moat that no one else can go out and just say, "Oh, I'm going to do the same thing.">> There's economies of scale, we're all over the place.
Sebastien Badault
>> And we've built an operating system, we've built a secure technology. As you've probably mentioned before, the chip in your credit card is a French invention. That's pretty much what the HSM is within Ledger Enterprise. So the discussion that we're having is we're trying to at least on the one hand at least share with them what we know and what we understand about the importance of security and what works. And then trying to see how we can partner and help them out either by selling our technology or by building something together with them.>> I mean that's the theme in the Crypto Trailblazers episodes. This is our fourth event. It's going to be probably continuing. It's more demand. The IPO today showed, again, the market is underestimated on the private side, public appetite is huge. So you guys got to be pumped at Ledger, not going to go there.
Sebastien Badault
>> It's always good news to see people in the space. We have friends at Bullish, etc, so congratulating to them and then they'll be sending them notes to congratulate them now that the bell has rung. But it definitely shows and that there is... I think the market's been just waiting for this, been waiting for this clarity, but also we're really seeing a shift I think for->> There's money involved, there's real money.
Sebastien Badault
>> There's real money involved. And then the other thing is that I think for a long time the ethos was it's like crypto versus fiat, etc. And I think that we're coming to a place where TradFi is really adopting crypto, but it's kind of like more of a partnership than one taking the other one over. And that's the way it should be.>> And the theme is that people in finance just want to do their thing.
Sebastien Badault
>> Exactly,>> Whether it's trading or on the institutional side, and they understand the buy, build. They've been doing IT for generations. You mentioned Amazon, that CloudWave was very elementary, build three building blocks and now you had abstraction of services. So that scale-
Sebastien Badault
>> But it took a while. It took a while. Right from the beginning the technology was there, and that's always the case. Technology is there, but it takes a little while for people to try it out, say, "Okay, it actually makes sense." And I think that now what they're seeing and what everyone's seeing is that it works because we've been building this technology for years. So it actually works. It is faster, it is cheaper. The rails that we had were old and needed a change, and it's an opportunity. And in finance, what you're looking for, you're looking for opportunities, you're looking for hedges, crypto becomes an edge and some people are .>> It's interesting. So yes, they're going to go to solutions that are proven. Totally see that platforms as well is a huge trend. We've seen that on the cloud, cybersecurity. The area that's interesting is, it's interesting you said they're waiting because if you look at the sentiment of the enterprise on the bank side, they've all had stuff going. They were waiting for the green light. You see, the GENIUS Act and stable coins are two moments here in the US where it's like, "Okay, there's going to be some clear rules of the road, unlike the other regimes that were in power." So that's going to open up the floodgates. We see that. And two, the enterprises all know from the gen AI and from their own business is that their data is their moat, data is their intellectual property, data is their money. And so you're starting to see the emergence of digital assets on new chains. Now, one of the story lines here this week is a lot of chains, we heard Circle's got a chain, we hear Stripe's going have a chain. So, okay, they're going to be series of chains, and that's more assets on chains. So how does that fit into what you're looking at? Because that's going to be a private cloud almost, private chain.
Sebastien Badault
>> There's a couple of things that are really interesting. It's essentially that you took Circle and Stripe because at one point or another, when you look at what Circle's doing, are they going head-to-head with Stripe, for example, to go after that payment and not just do the stable coin fee. So that's an important point. And then what's very interesting is that's something that we've been working on quite a bit in the past few months is that we really need to help integrate all of these chains. Because if you're going to be doing treasury management, maybe you're going to be working with Circle's coin, or you're going to be working with Fidelity's or whoever is building one. But that requires an integration. That's one of some of the things that we're working on. It's not that easy because each chain is very->> It's exciting because it's almost like building networks that war one's not disparate, but they're going to connect them.
Sebastien Badault
>> Absolutely.>> And so you got to have the public chain, you can have your own chain. If you've got assets you want to keep them have custom features. Okay, cool. Stable coins too. They can have stable coins, but they already have their own stable coin. They should.
Sebastien Badault
>> They do and they do. And there'll be more and more right now that the GENIUS Act is in, who knows, Amazon might have a stable coin tomorrow. Walmart might have a stable coin, it would make sense.>> Everyone that's doing any commerce will probably have a stable coin.
Sebastien Badault
>> And then down the line, that means you do need to have custody around that stable coin. You need to secure that stable coin. And that's when we come in.>> You guys step up to the plate.
Sebastien Badault
>> The opportunity is right there.>> All right, so what's the demand like? Because clearly the trend is your friend, right now, custody is going to be a very key part, settlement, clearing, big parts, payment rails. What's that mean for you guys? What's some of the things you're seeing blooming now in the market?
Sebastien Badault
>> I mean, I think stable is obviously one of the big things and I think that it's going to grow and explode probably in the next year. So there's a lot of discussions happening around that for sure. But also we're just seeing a lot of money coming in, like asset managers coming in and wanting to have access to this different liquidity. The fact that it's absolutely global as well is very important. The fact that you can go and connect with different exchanges in different parts of the world and through our technology have access to Japanese market, the Korean market, all these different things. I think there's a big opportunity there as well. And then what I was saying, I think you hit it on the head on the new coins and the foundations, which is one of the things that we're really concentrating.>> One of the things you guys have, I noticed on the business side, obviously the developer, you got great traction. You got an event coming up in October right now for developers, big part of your community. But as businesses are coming on, you mentioned solutions. How custom are they? Are they all... Is it a feature or a bug to be a one-off? Because beauty's in the eye of the beholder as they say. So if I'm an enterprise, I have needs, talk about the customization options. What do you guys do there? What's the conversations? What are they?
Sebastien Badault
>> So it's a mix. We do have a product where that's plug and play. You come in and you talk to us and we can integrate you in a week and you can have the Ledger enterprise solution. But there is a customization aspect because the whole governance is going to be fully customized to what your needs are. So you're going to decide who are the different signers, what are the levels of signature that you need someone to get integrated in or not mean? So it's really specific to every company's needs.>> You got to do the work, get the requirements, do the classic integration.
Sebastien Badault
>> And we do it, we will hold your hand through the process, which is the onboarding process, but there's customization here. But then when you're using the product, it's the same product. You have access to all these , then you decide which the apps you want to connect to. Do you want to do staking? I mean within the product you decide how you use it, but it's the same product. And then to your point, we do have discussions with some very large players who have what I was mentioning earlier, who have very specific needs, which would be integrating some of our solutions and then make it available to some of the retail users. And that would be a custom, but that's not the majority. The majority is just people coming in through the door on Tradelink, on our off exchange trading platform, same thing. They want to customize their network. They want to say, "I want to pledge my assets with this custodian and have access to these different exchanges." That's going to be fully custom. You're going to decide, it's basically your own network->> You're wiring it up.
Sebastien Badault
>> network that you're doing, but you're using the same technology. So it's customization within something that the technology layer, which is really the security layer is the same. We don't make more security here or there. The security is always .>> I mean, you guys are grounded in security. That's what I like about your company. So I have to ask you on a personal note, you said you worked at Amazon, Google, Alibaba. So you've been an Amazonian, you've been a Googler.
Sebastien Badault
>> I have.>> I can't speak to the Alibaba culture, but what's the culture like at Ledger? Is it Amazonian-like? Is it Googler-like? What is the vibe? Obviously your office is spectacular, in Paris, so anyone's ever been to Ledger's office go check it out if you're in town there. But what's the culture like at Ledger? Because the pace of play is so high right now. A friend of mine went on vacation and they came back a week later and stuff on the plate is massive. What's it like at Ledger?
Sebastien Badault
>> So I think I'll say a couple of things. I think the first part is that one thing that's common is the passion. And I think the level of passion within Ledger employees about the space, how passionate about crypto is really incredible. And I think that's true of the space as a whole, but it's definitely true within Ledger. People just really believe in the crypto and it's very mission-driven. And I was at Amazon in '99 where .>> That was a mission.
Sebastien Badault
>> early on, and there was really a mission.>> People didn't understand what was going on.
Sebastien Badault
>> No. And also there was this idea of saying, "We want to make culture available to all," right, if you're in the middle of Wisconsin or whatever, and you don't have a bookstore that's within a 50 miles or whatever, have every book delivered to your door with a revolution. And for Google, it was a revolution also of making advertising available to, all right, you're a small business right now, what can you do? You could do Yellow Pages, etc. No, right now you have .>> Access, selection.
Sebastien Badault
>> Exactly. So there was a mission between these things. And so I really feel that, and that's something very common at Ledger. It's the first French company that I work for, but it's not French at all, right? If you look at our... I mean it's French in the sense that we are based in France, etc, but then the culture, it's really international. When we look executive committee, etc, it's people from everywhere. You had Arion, Ian Rogers at CXO, I mean, it's people from the UK and I really love the fact that it's very diverse and then the mindset is very international. And then the last thing I'll say is that I think Amazon is... Your culture is very rooted in who your CEO is. And I think that Amazon was very rooted in business because Bezos was coming from finance and was a business guy. Whereas Google is very rooted in product because it came from engineers like Larry and Sergey were and our engineers. And I think Ledger is kind of a mix between the two because it's founded by engineers. It has that very big product culture.>> It's a hybrid.
Sebastien Badault
>> And the CEO today is definitely a business guy. So it's this hybrid between the two. So it's really interesting to see how it works both ways.>> Well, you guys are doing great. The business market is phenomenally set up for folks that have done the work and are growing.
Sebastien Badault
>> We're continuing to do it.>> Final question for you, Sébastien. What is your needs now? What's on your mind? What's on your plate? What are your goals? Put a plug in for Ledger. What are you working on? What are some of the cool things?
Sebastien Badault
>> I mean, I think what we want is just to help as many institutions in the space, especially here in the US because I wouldn't have told you this six months ago, but clearly we see so much opportunity here. So anyone that has security needs or wants to really recreate our treasury, etc, that give us a call. We'll gladly sit down with you guys and find... Because that's what we're trying to build. We're trying to build really strong partnerships with some of the biggest players in the space. We're doing that, and we hope that that's going to be basically .>> Yeah, and the market's maturing in the sense of the technology, the money's flowing, the plumbing's being recast.
Sebastien Badault
>> And that's what we're trying to help build.>> Sure. Yeah. Congratulations. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. The Crypto Trailblazers series, NYSE Wired and theCUBE partnership, really exposing the innovation curve, the demand, the disruptive enablement that's coming from this new wave that's really changing how we work, play, and interact, and certainly monies involved, digital assets all going to be on the chain. So again, the world is changing super fast. The IPO market is evidence that the private market is undervalued relative to what's happening. The world is moving super fast, and of course, we're doing our best to keep up and bring that to you. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante here in New York City at the NYSE for our Crypto Trailblazer series. Thanks for watching.
