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Rong Kai Wong

CEO

Reactive Network

play_circle_outline Ethereum Act 2: scaling up and commercializing capabilities for decentralized applications

play_circle_outline Focus on scale vs. value clash in Ethereum ecosystem

play_circle_outline Reactive Network's goal to enable smart contracts to respond to events on-chain

play_circle_outline Vision for Reactive Network: bringing Web3 possibilities to non-Web3 commercial space

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Rong Kai Wong, Reactive Network

Rong Kai Wong

CEO Reactive Network

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>> Hello, welcome back to theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, your host here in our Palo Alto Studios for Crypto Trailblazer Week. It's 2 days digital event where all the top crypto innovators who are blazing the trail for the future are coming in to share their opinion. The Ethereum Foundation is in the Bay Area for the week. Variety of activities at Stanford and Berkeley, really initiating and activating the community to get more participation, more minds on some of the core problems. As I say, Ethereum Act 2 is coming to the market, which is really scaling up and commercializing in a good way, the Ethereum capabilities and ushering a new era of decentralized application. Kai is here, he's the co-founder of Reactive Network, a part of the Ethereum ecosystem. Kai, thanks for coming on theCUBE.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Thank you for having me.

>> And sharing your stories and what you're working on. Stories drive movements. Ethereum is a movement, it's always has been in my mind from day one, and I say act 2 mainly because we had that initial optimism and activity and then we had a little bit of a dark time with COVID, ICOs, NFTs, so a lot of people get iterating and then we're back. You're starting to see scale and a maturization of the people and the ecosystem, and you got more supercomputing capability, you got more power, you got more people see the future now, that's happening, you're working on it. What's your take on the Ethereum situation, the status of the network, status of the community and what you're doing and how that all fits together? Take a minute to explain what's going on in Ethereum, what problems have been solved, what problems are being solved, and what problems have not yet been solved. Big question was to start you off.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Wow, this is a big question. Definitely. Thank you for having me. So, I think in the Ethereum ecosystem right now, we've grown basically over the past, almost a decade more, well, it's a decade actually, and we've gone through a lot of different phases. And actually, I probably would like to start from what Vitalik himself actually said just yesterday. Oh, sorry, on Monday. So, there's basically always a competing, I would say attention and focus between two different camps, one on scaling and one on value. They're not mutually exclusive, but sometimes, they tend to clash because we should not even focus on this. And I think Ethereum has reached a point where, yes, scale is an issue. That's why we have layer twos, sometimes layer threes, and we have a lot of different people coming with different solutions and they say, "Let's try to do this," and they slap some solutions on top. Some of it at the side of it, I think fundamental clash between value and basic scale is really on you have limited resources. Which one are you trying to focus on first? At the end of the day, if you can have both, why not both? And that to me is the fundamentals of clash in this cycle for Ethereum ecosystem. And I like to start with this because he mentioned it and it resonated a lot with me. A lot of the solutions that we see right now focus on scale, some of it on value, but a lot of the times, they start off with, "Okay, let's build something," hopefully, open source. But vast majority are actually, still closed source, still centralized. It introduces a lot of centralized potential point of failures into the entire ecosystem. Not all of it is bad. Sometimes, yes, you do need to take things in a more centralized manner. So, for example, blockchain data is very often centrally distributed. It's out there, you can tap onto it, you can study it on your own if you have the resources, the computing power. But most of the time, if you want to have a working product, a working business product, which responds to all the various different things happening on-chain, you either do it yourself or you tap onto a provider who's more or less structured in a more centralized manner. And the reason they have to do it is because blockchain data is not reactive. It's not interactive with the data that's happening in it. You actually have to put it off and then you bookmark it, sort it out, and find what you want before you actually react back onto the chain.

>> And your venture, you just launched this week, Reactive Network. Explain that. Take us through the history, how you got there, and what are you doing?

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yeah, so Reactive Network is something that we built with actually the central tenants of the Ethereum ecosystem in mind. We want it to be open source, we want it to be on-chain. We want to basically solve blockchain technology problems using blockchain technology, like why are we building all of this entire text out of blockchain if it can be solved on-chain? So, that's where we came from. Our history is that we started from on-chain, if this, then that. That was like Genesis six years ago. And we moved into indexing and eventually, we picked up on all of these lessons we learned. And we look at this and we look at actually the Ethereum white paper. A long time ago when it first came out, there were two key things that they were trying to solve and they were trying to do. Blockchains, obviously, if you put a code on it, they say, "Let's publish the things that's happening and let's enable subscribing," on-chain. Publishing what was done on day one, anything happens, there's an events log, it's published. Subscribing is where it gets very difficult. I'll not go into the technical details behind it, but essentially, if you look at it from a non-Web3 point of view, if you're a developer and you are comfortable building on the other tech stacks that's not Web3, maybe you're a Google developer or somewhere else, and you look at it and it's like, wait, that doesn't make sense. What do you mean your code can't respond to events? But that's essentially what happens in this space broadly right now.

>> And what problem did you solve? What was the main problem you solved?

Rong Kai Wong

>> So, the main problem that we want to solve is to enable smart contracts. Basically, a code that's deployed on Web3 to respond to events. That's it. That's the one sentence solution that we want to solve. And why is that important? It's because if it can't respond to events on-chain, everyone in this industry is doing is to pull it off-chain, deploy a separate code, and because you're deploying a separate code on a different tech stack is written in a different language, and then you have to sort it out, and then you have to talk between the two layers on-chain, off-chain, understand the requirements on both sides, and then react back on-chain.

>> A lot of work.

Rong Kai Wong

>> A lot of work.

>> So, there's heavy lifting involved there, just that's gone.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yes. What we want to do is if you can do it on-chain and written in the same code, why not? And that to me is really just start. What we want to do with Reactive Network is to enable developers to, "Oh, now, I do not need to spend all my time coding all of this thing and just trying to make sure that part works." Now, it's just, "Oh, I'm using the same code. I have a smart contract on layer one and layer two on base on Arbitrum, and then I have a reactive smart contract that help me solve all these reactive needs I need." As long as you have a business, you need some reactivity. If this thing happens, my code needs to be able to see it and react in real time, and now, I just deploy it using the same code. And that means, what I thought that meant, it means that the developers can now think, "Okay, what can my platform or my business solve for other things, for new things?" And they can make code things in a much more streamlined manner.

>> So, productivity is critical there, developer productivity, better efficiency with the data that solves that problem. What's been the reaction? You're out here in the Bay Area, a parade for you. Hey, thank you very much. What's been the conversations you've had?

Rong Kai Wong

>> It was extremely encouraging because what happened was actually, we are sponsoring the hackathon for Ethereum SF, and we talk about the bounties. And before we talk about bounties, we just shared this is a Reactive Network. We had one minute and we just talked about essentially what this means. One sentence like, it's fully on-chain and you have reactive smart contracts. And it was to not too many people, but right after that, we have multiple projects approaching us like, "Hey, this is interesting," because for the first time, the developers have a paradigm shift. When they approached Web3, they were thinking, "Oh, the old way of doing it, I have to do this, I have to do that. I need to put in maybe three months to make sure I pull the data off. Two tech stacks, four tech stacks, six tech stacks talking to each other. And then after that, I solved my problem." But now it's like, "Oh, everything's just one."

>> So, all that provisioning essentially of the technical stacks just to get going.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Precisely.

>> It's like building a data center versus going to the cloud. People think of it that way.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Precisely, and I think one of the most exciting thing is that people are starting to think about new solutions that were not really possible previously. I say it's not possible from a technical standpoint because if you connect enough tech stacks and you have enough time and resources, you probably can solve it in a relatively complicated manner. But the reality in this space is that things are moving so quickly and in my views, we are actually trying to catch up with the non-Web3 space, and now, they can.

>> Talk about the hackathon. What were some of the things that jumped out at you at the hackathon that might've surprised you? Any mindset shift or project or hack that looked great? Any results that you can share, stories there?

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yeah, of course people are still hacking and people are asking questions, but I think one of the exciting things as we are talking to different developers is basically this. Right now, of course the market's kind of iffy. They're looking at it and asking themselves what can they potentially make big breakthroughs? AI is the big talk of the space for a while, AI and how it interacts with Web3. And they started looking at us because if you're deploying AI, machine learning, and all that, it needs reactive data. It needs to be able to jump at things, and you can't do it organically on-chain and straight away, we are coming forward with it, and now you can. And they see it up because straight away, it solves all their problems.

>> The data's more organized or at least more consistent on-chain now than before. You had off-chain, on-chain.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Precisely.

>> More moving parts.

Rong Kai Wong

>> So, now, all they need to do is to use this, like for example, Solidity. They build a reactive smart contract on us, and maybe I have a platform on base and now, I can listen in and not just on base, maybe on five other different chains. I can listen in. My code will automatically pick up on all the events that's happening and my code will automatically react because that's what it's coded for. That cuts out a lot of the problems. And in fact, it enables a lot of the new functions that the entire industry is actually currently trying to struggle with. A lot of the UX big changes that people were trying to go for. If you're trying to do it on-chain and off-chain, there's a lot of complexity involved. But if you do everything on-chain, it cuts a lot of that work off.

>> And one of the benefits of AI that everyone's raving about that's obvious is the code assistance. We heard from Siri before when he was on about how the LLMs can give me a smart contract. So, how has the models helped with Solidity and some of the integration? Has that come up a lot? Is that something that you're seeing where there's leverage now with the AI potentially?

Rong Kai Wong

>> It's something that we actually started hearing from other AI companies since at least half a year ago. To them, the holy grail is this. Someone who's obviously not a coder, not a developer, no knowledge of it whatsoever, goes to the AI agent and say, "Hey, I have $1,000 here. Can you turn it into $10,000 for me? Go."

>> Okay, that's a great prompt. What's the answer?

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yes, that's the holy grail. And the AI agent will be like, "Okay," it might ask a few questions like, what's the risk profile, et cetera, and it just goes and the AI agent writes the code, but if it just writes typical smart contracts, there is that off-chain side of things that it's not that easy for them to link up with unless the AI agents already have existing partnerships with all these APIs and, "Okay, I can pull all of this data," I need to write other codes outside of blockchain as well to make it happen. But they want to talk to us because, oh, now, they just need to deploy a reactive smart contract and straight away, all of that part, at least the on-chain part of the house, it's all settled. That to them, it's the holy grail, and they were very excited because we enabled the whole thing to be just coded with Solidity. Nothing new for them.

>> Yeah, and that's awesome. And it's going to open up the aperture of more people building apps for sure. What's your vision for Reactive Network? What's next? What are you hoping to accomplish? What are some of your goals?

Rong Kai Wong

>> I think my goal is really to bring basically these Web3 possibilities to the non-Web3 space, the commercial side of the house. I think right now, in this industry, we are still very focused on financial solutions because, well, more than 90% of anything that's happening on Web3 are related to finance, DeFi, other basic tokens, a lot of trades, options, derivatives, and all of it. I think the real delta comes in when real-life use cases with logistics, with gaming product codes, with all of this movement of real goods come in and they use this as solution and they're not going to look at it and say that, "Oh, if I need to deploy it on using a Web3 tech stack, it's not just one tech stack, it's like five and it's complicated," but why do I need to handle this when I can just build it on a typical cloud service?

>> Yeah, real infrastructure.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Data, yeah.

>> Yeah, decentralized infrastructures.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yes. And I see it as a big delta where we enable them coming in and finally they'd be like, "Okay, actually, it's just one tech stack." That's relatively easy. The data storage, of course, will be off-chain. That's fine. They know how to handle that. They've experienced doing it, and the go-to market is so much, so much faster. And the way I see it, imagine a day where your gaming product codes or your logistics, for example, from point to point, if it's a gaming product code, for example, on a game studio, I produce the product codes, 1 million of them or 10 million, and I issue out to the various different vendors like Steam, PlayStation, and so on, and it goes to the players who buy them and the players after playing for two months, three months, maybe they want to resell it, end to end to the second layers of players and to third layers of players. Me, as a publisher, I can keep track of the whole thing, it's immutable.

>> It's an economy, it's a marketplace.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Precisely, and it's big data, and I can actually create code that responds automatically to all of these changes, as well. Maybe on Tuesday, the sales are pretty bad, my code will automatically trigger and say, "Let's have sales on Tuesday."

>> Yeah, you put some policy on it. Logic, business logic.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yes.

>> So, solutions is the future.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yes. Right now, all of this is pretty manual, but with this, it actually enables companies to start looking at, "Okay, maybe I can look at Web3 as a kind of solution."

>> Yeah, so the scale and value still are in play, not usually exclusive, both independent, but related.

Rong Kai Wong

>> But related. Yes, precisely.

>> Kai, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. Final question. Stories drive movements. What's your favorite story this week from the Bay Area movement that's happening here?

Rong Kai Wong

>> Wow. Actually, the big story to me that I'm really, really interested in is actually what's coming to happen tomorrow, where tomorrow is all about d/acc, which Vitalik was talking about. My background before I joined this industry, I was actually in law enforcement. Security is it's like, "Oh, I can understand it." Actually, that's my original playing field.

>> You get sucked into the rabbit hole, like, "Wow, this is a really great environment."

Rong Kai Wong

>> It is. And the thing about whether a physical security or cybersecurity, the weakest link is the part that will break the whole thing. It's not about how well you build the entire house. It's actually the weakest link, whichever it is. Usually, it's the door or the humans or the windows, wherever it is. And in d/acc, I think it's a very good way to look at it from a standpoint where you're really trying to eliminate weakest points and weakest links. Very often, it's centralized. Very often, it's human, and you're trying to use this technology and adapt it in all various different use cases and various different verticals and various different industries. To me, that is the fun thing to be.

>> D/acc is huge, accelerating fast. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate the stories and congratulations on the launch of your venture and good luck. We'll keep in touch.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Thank you so much. Thank you.

>> We are here for the Crypto Trailblazers series. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching.

Rong Kai Wong, Reactive Network

search

>> Hello, welcome back to theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, your host here in our Palo Alto Studios for Crypto Trailblazer Week. It's 2 days digital event where all the top crypto innovators who are blazing the trail for the future are coming in to share their opinion. The Ethereum Foundation is in the Bay Area for the week. Variety of activities at Stanford and Berkeley, really initiating and activating the community to get more participation, more minds on some of the core problems. As I say, Ethereum Act 2 is coming to the market, which is really scaling up and commercializing in a good way, the Ethereum capabilities and ushering a new era of decentralized application. Kai is here, he's the co-founder of Reactive Network, a part of the Ethereum ecosystem. Kai, thanks for coming on theCUBE.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Thank you for having me.

>> And sharing your stories and what you're working on. Stories drive movements. Ethereum is a movement, it's always has been in my mind from day one, and I say act 2 mainly because we had that initial optimism and activity and then we had a little bit of a dark time with COVID, ICOs, NFTs, so a lot of people get iterating and then we're back. You're starting to see scale and a maturization of the people and the ecosystem, and you got more supercomputing capability, you got more power, you got more people see the future now, that's happening, you're working on it. What's your take on the Ethereum situation, the status of the network, status of the community and what you're doing and how that all fits together? Take a minute to explain what's going on in Ethereum, what problems have been solved, what problems are being solved, and what problems have not yet been solved. Big question was to start you off.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Wow, this is a big question. Definitely. Thank you for having me. So, I think in the Ethereum ecosystem right now, we've grown basically over the past, almost a decade more, well, it's a decade actually, and we've gone through a lot of different phases. And actually, I probably would like to start from what Vitalik himself actually said just yesterday. Oh, sorry, on Monday. So, there's basically always a competing, I would say attention and focus between two different camps, one on scaling and one on value. They're not mutually exclusive, but sometimes, they tend to clash because we should not even focus on this. And I think Ethereum has reached a point where, yes, scale is an issue. That's why we have layer twos, sometimes layer threes, and we have a lot of different people coming with different solutions and they say, "Let's try to do this," and they slap some solutions on top. Some of it at the side of it, I think fundamental clash between value and basic scale is really on you have limited resources. Which one are you trying to focus on first? At the end of the day, if you can have both, why not both? And that to me is the fundamentals of clash in this cycle for Ethereum ecosystem. And I like to start with this because he mentioned it and it resonated a lot with me. A lot of the solutions that we see right now focus on scale, some of it on value, but a lot of the times, they start off with, "Okay, let's build something," hopefully, open source. But vast majority are actually, still closed source, still centralized. It introduces a lot of centralized potential point of failures into the entire ecosystem. Not all of it is bad. Sometimes, yes, you do need to take things in a more centralized manner. So, for example, blockchain data is very often centrally distributed. It's out there, you can tap onto it, you can study it on your own if you have the resources, the computing power. But most of the time, if you want to have a working product, a working business product, which responds to all the various different things happening on-chain, you either do it yourself or you tap onto a provider who's more or less structured in a more centralized manner. And the reason they have to do it is because blockchain data is not reactive. It's not interactive with the data that's happening in it. You actually have to put it off and then you bookmark it, sort it out, and find what you want before you actually react back onto the chain.

>> And your venture, you just launched this week, Reactive Network. Explain that. Take us through the history, how you got there, and what are you doing?

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yeah, so Reactive Network is something that we built with actually the central tenants of the Ethereum ecosystem in mind. We want it to be open source, we want it to be on-chain. We want to basically solve blockchain technology problems using blockchain technology, like why are we building all of this entire text out of blockchain if it can be solved on-chain? So, that's where we came from. Our history is that we started from on-chain, if this, then that. That was like Genesis six years ago. And we moved into indexing and eventually, we picked up on all of these lessons we learned. And we look at this and we look at actually the Ethereum white paper. A long time ago when it first came out, there were two key things that they were trying to solve and they were trying to do. Blockchains, obviously, if you put a code on it, they say, "Let's publish the things that's happening and let's enable subscribing," on-chain. Publishing what was done on day one, anything happens, there's an events log, it's published. Subscribing is where it gets very difficult. I'll not go into the technical details behind it, but essentially, if you look at it from a non-Web3 point of view, if you're a developer and you are comfortable building on the other tech stacks that's not Web3, maybe you're a Google developer or somewhere else, and you look at it and it's like, wait, that doesn't make sense. What do you mean your code can't respond to events? But that's essentially what happens in this space broadly right now.

>> And what problem did you solve? What was the main problem you solved?

Rong Kai Wong

>> So, the main problem that we want to solve is to enable smart contracts. Basically, a code that's deployed on Web3 to respond to events. That's it. That's the one sentence solution that we want to solve. And why is that important? It's because if it can't respond to events on-chain, everyone in this industry is doing is to pull it off-chain, deploy a separate code, and because you're deploying a separate code on a different tech stack is written in a different language, and then you have to sort it out, and then you have to talk between the two layers on-chain, off-chain, understand the requirements on both sides, and then react back on-chain.

>> A lot of work.

Rong Kai Wong

>> A lot of work.

>> So, there's heavy lifting involved there, just that's gone.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yes. What we want to do is if you can do it on-chain and written in the same code, why not? And that to me is really just start. What we want to do with Reactive Network is to enable developers to, "Oh, now, I do not need to spend all my time coding all of this thing and just trying to make sure that part works." Now, it's just, "Oh, I'm using the same code. I have a smart contract on layer one and layer two on base on Arbitrum, and then I have a reactive smart contract that help me solve all these reactive needs I need." As long as you have a business, you need some reactivity. If this thing happens, my code needs to be able to see it and react in real time, and now, I just deploy it using the same code. And that means, what I thought that meant, it means that the developers can now think, "Okay, what can my platform or my business solve for other things, for new things?" And they can make code things in a much more streamlined manner.

>> So, productivity is critical there, developer productivity, better efficiency with the data that solves that problem. What's been the reaction? You're out here in the Bay Area, a parade for you. Hey, thank you very much. What's been the conversations you've had?

Rong Kai Wong

>> It was extremely encouraging because what happened was actually, we are sponsoring the hackathon for Ethereum SF, and we talk about the bounties. And before we talk about bounties, we just shared this is a Reactive Network. We had one minute and we just talked about essentially what this means. One sentence like, it's fully on-chain and you have reactive smart contracts. And it was to not too many people, but right after that, we have multiple projects approaching us like, "Hey, this is interesting," because for the first time, the developers have a paradigm shift. When they approached Web3, they were thinking, "Oh, the old way of doing it, I have to do this, I have to do that. I need to put in maybe three months to make sure I pull the data off. Two tech stacks, four tech stacks, six tech stacks talking to each other. And then after that, I solved my problem." But now it's like, "Oh, everything's just one."

>> So, all that provisioning essentially of the technical stacks just to get going.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Precisely.

>> It's like building a data center versus going to the cloud. People think of it that way.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Precisely, and I think one of the most exciting thing is that people are starting to think about new solutions that were not really possible previously. I say it's not possible from a technical standpoint because if you connect enough tech stacks and you have enough time and resources, you probably can solve it in a relatively complicated manner. But the reality in this space is that things are moving so quickly and in my views, we are actually trying to catch up with the non-Web3 space, and now, they can.

>> Talk about the hackathon. What were some of the things that jumped out at you at the hackathon that might've surprised you? Any mindset shift or project or hack that looked great? Any results that you can share, stories there?

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yeah, of course people are still hacking and people are asking questions, but I think one of the exciting things as we are talking to different developers is basically this. Right now, of course the market's kind of iffy. They're looking at it and asking themselves what can they potentially make big breakthroughs? AI is the big talk of the space for a while, AI and how it interacts with Web3. And they started looking at us because if you're deploying AI, machine learning, and all that, it needs reactive data. It needs to be able to jump at things, and you can't do it organically on-chain and straight away, we are coming forward with it, and now you can. And they see it up because straight away, it solves all their problems.

>> The data's more organized or at least more consistent on-chain now than before. You had off-chain, on-chain.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Precisely.

>> More moving parts.

Rong Kai Wong

>> So, now, all they need to do is to use this, like for example, Solidity. They build a reactive smart contract on us, and maybe I have a platform on base and now, I can listen in and not just on base, maybe on five other different chains. I can listen in. My code will automatically pick up on all the events that's happening and my code will automatically react because that's what it's coded for. That cuts out a lot of the problems. And in fact, it enables a lot of the new functions that the entire industry is actually currently trying to struggle with. A lot of the UX big changes that people were trying to go for. If you're trying to do it on-chain and off-chain, there's a lot of complexity involved. But if you do everything on-chain, it cuts a lot of that work off.

>> And one of the benefits of AI that everyone's raving about that's obvious is the code assistance. We heard from Siri before when he was on about how the LLMs can give me a smart contract. So, how has the models helped with Solidity and some of the integration? Has that come up a lot? Is that something that you're seeing where there's leverage now with the AI potentially?

Rong Kai Wong

>> It's something that we actually started hearing from other AI companies since at least half a year ago. To them, the holy grail is this. Someone who's obviously not a coder, not a developer, no knowledge of it whatsoever, goes to the AI agent and say, "Hey, I have $1,000 here. Can you turn it into $10,000 for me? Go."

>> Okay, that's a great prompt. What's the answer?

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yes, that's the holy grail. And the AI agent will be like, "Okay," it might ask a few questions like, what's the risk profile, et cetera, and it just goes and the AI agent writes the code, but if it just writes typical smart contracts, there is that off-chain side of things that it's not that easy for them to link up with unless the AI agents already have existing partnerships with all these APIs and, "Okay, I can pull all of this data," I need to write other codes outside of blockchain as well to make it happen. But they want to talk to us because, oh, now, they just need to deploy a reactive smart contract and straight away, all of that part, at least the on-chain part of the house, it's all settled. That to them, it's the holy grail, and they were very excited because we enabled the whole thing to be just coded with Solidity. Nothing new for them.

>> Yeah, and that's awesome. And it's going to open up the aperture of more people building apps for sure. What's your vision for Reactive Network? What's next? What are you hoping to accomplish? What are some of your goals?

Rong Kai Wong

>> I think my goal is really to bring basically these Web3 possibilities to the non-Web3 space, the commercial side of the house. I think right now, in this industry, we are still very focused on financial solutions because, well, more than 90% of anything that's happening on Web3 are related to finance, DeFi, other basic tokens, a lot of trades, options, derivatives, and all of it. I think the real delta comes in when real-life use cases with logistics, with gaming product codes, with all of this movement of real goods come in and they use this as solution and they're not going to look at it and say that, "Oh, if I need to deploy it on using a Web3 tech stack, it's not just one tech stack, it's like five and it's complicated," but why do I need to handle this when I can just build it on a typical cloud service?

>> Yeah, real infrastructure.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Data, yeah.

>> Yeah, decentralized infrastructures.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yes. And I see it as a big delta where we enable them coming in and finally they'd be like, "Okay, actually, it's just one tech stack." That's relatively easy. The data storage, of course, will be off-chain. That's fine. They know how to handle that. They've experienced doing it, and the go-to market is so much, so much faster. And the way I see it, imagine a day where your gaming product codes or your logistics, for example, from point to point, if it's a gaming product code, for example, on a game studio, I produce the product codes, 1 million of them or 10 million, and I issue out to the various different vendors like Steam, PlayStation, and so on, and it goes to the players who buy them and the players after playing for two months, three months, maybe they want to resell it, end to end to the second layers of players and to third layers of players. Me, as a publisher, I can keep track of the whole thing, it's immutable.

>> It's an economy, it's a marketplace.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Precisely, and it's big data, and I can actually create code that responds automatically to all of these changes, as well. Maybe on Tuesday, the sales are pretty bad, my code will automatically trigger and say, "Let's have sales on Tuesday."

>> Yeah, you put some policy on it. Logic, business logic.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yes.

>> So, solutions is the future.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Yes. Right now, all of this is pretty manual, but with this, it actually enables companies to start looking at, "Okay, maybe I can look at Web3 as a kind of solution."

>> Yeah, so the scale and value still are in play, not usually exclusive, both independent, but related.

Rong Kai Wong

>> But related. Yes, precisely.

>> Kai, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. Final question. Stories drive movements. What's your favorite story this week from the Bay Area movement that's happening here?

Rong Kai Wong

>> Wow. Actually, the big story to me that I'm really, really interested in is actually what's coming to happen tomorrow, where tomorrow is all about d/acc, which Vitalik was talking about. My background before I joined this industry, I was actually in law enforcement. Security is it's like, "Oh, I can understand it." Actually, that's my original playing field.

>> You get sucked into the rabbit hole, like, "Wow, this is a really great environment."

Rong Kai Wong

>> It is. And the thing about whether a physical security or cybersecurity, the weakest link is the part that will break the whole thing. It's not about how well you build the entire house. It's actually the weakest link, whichever it is. Usually, it's the door or the humans or the windows, wherever it is. And in d/acc, I think it's a very good way to look at it from a standpoint where you're really trying to eliminate weakest points and weakest links. Very often, it's centralized. Very often, it's human, and you're trying to use this technology and adapt it in all various different use cases and various different verticals and various different industries. To me, that is the fun thing to be.

>> D/acc is huge, accelerating fast. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate the stories and congratulations on the launch of your venture and good luck. We'll keep in touch.

Rong Kai Wong

>> Thank you so much. Thank you.

>> We are here for the Crypto Trailblazers series. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching.