theCUBE + NYSE Wired: Crypto Trailblazers | Constantin Kogan, Holistic Capital

Constantin Kogan, Holistic Capital

In this insightful episode of the Crypto Trailblazers series hosted by theCUBE, Mike Cagney of Figure Markets sits down with analysts from theCUBE Research to discuss groundbreaking advancements in blockchain technology and their implications for the finance sector. This video is part of the NYSE Wired digital event, aimed at bridging the gap between Silicon Valley and Wall Street by integrating technology and finance. Cagney, an eminent figure in fintech, shares expertise on the transformative role of blockchain in financial markets during this interview. Conducted by seasoned analysts at theCUBE, the discussion delves into Figure’s innovative contributions, including their blockchain-native loan origination and securitization process. He outlines how Figure leverages blockchain to achieve cost reductions, enhanced security and improved liquidity in financial transactions. Key takeaways from the interview highlight insights on the evolution of the Web3 ecosystem, such as the emergence of stablecoins as pivotal to transaction processes and the rise of decentralized finance (DeFi). Oltsik states these developments signify a shift towards democratizing finance, wherein truth and transparency are foundational. The conversation concludes with a look at Figure’s pioneering efforts in creating a new financial marketplace utilizing blockchain technology. #CryptoTrailblazers #FigureMarkets #BlockchainInnovation #Web3 #NYEWired #BlockchainFinance #DecentralizedFinance #Fintech #Stablecoins Find more SiliconANGLE news and analysis https://siliconangle.com/. Follow theCUBE's wall-to-wall event coverage https://siliconangle.com/events/ Learn about the latest theCUBE events https://www.thecube.net/ 00:00 - Intro 00:05 - Emerging Innovations in Financial Technology and Market Dynamics 02:45 - Key Elements in Financial Ecosystem Dynamics 06:20 - Blockchain: Truth and Transformation 09:39 - Shaping the Future: Innovations in Financial Markets and Stablecoin Integration 13:15 - Enabling the Future: Navigating Disruptions in Banking and Lending 16:51 - Exploring Opportunities and Building Confidence in the Blockchain Ecosystem

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Constantin Kogan

Founder

Hoilistic Capital

play_circle_outline Holistic Capital: algorithmic, multi-asset trading; HFT and basis carry, focused on Bitcoin.

play_circle_outline From Chicago Trading Floors to Crypto Pioneer: Ukrainian Commodities Trader Who Went All‑In on Ethereum

play_circle_outline Career: BitBull Capital, Wave Financial, startups; managed large AUM and institutional products.

play_circle_outline From Pandemic Depression to 650K Followers: Launching Seven Podcasts to Educate and Connect

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Constantin Kogan, Holistic Capital

Constantin Kogan

Founder Hoilistic Capital

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Gemma Allen

>> Welcome back to theCUBE Studio here at the New York Stock Exchange. I'm Gemma Allen, and this is Crypto Trailblazers. It's part of our programming with NYSE Wired. And joining me today is Constantin Kogan, CEO and founder of Holistic Capital. Welcome, Constantin.

>> Thank you for having me, Gemma.

Gemma Allen

>> So for our listeners, viewers who might not be familiar, Holistic Capital, it sounds almost romantic. What exactly do you guys do?

>> Well, I love how you put it, romantic. Yes. We actually do trading. So algorithmic trading, we have multi-strategy, multi-assets, trading algorithmic. And mostly we focus on high frequency trading and basis carrier trade. And so far, we're focusing on Bitcoin. That's our primary asset.

Gemma Allen

>> Wow. Okay. And your own background. You started as somewhat of a psychology leaning space, right? Am I correct? Talk to me a little about the journey you've been on. What brought you to this?

>> Well, I started back in Ukraine when I was born. I was a futures and commodity trader. I was actually selling about 100,000 tons of physical , like weed, corn, barley, sunflower oil from Ukraine. And I really understood fast that we need to hedge our positions. And that's how I started to work Chicago Border of Trade. That was my first venue where I started to trade. Soybean future and many other commodities. And then my good friend, 2012, he told me that, "You have to buy Bitcoin." So I just blindly bought my five first Bitcoin. At BTC, not many people know it here. It was the biggest exchange between Eastern Europe and China back in the days. That was later seized by FBI, ironically. And I took all my money three months before, just by sheer luck, by the way. And that's how my journey started. I was a speculator. I was just trying to understand what it means, and I was trying to make money. Four years after, in retrospect, 2016, when Ethereum came out, to me, the idea sounded a little bit crazy, but then I promised myself that if the price goes to $10 and it's going to be more global adoption, smart contracts, I did understand something that it will change the entire industry, meaning the programmable money that will allow us to trade 24/7 and to have better sentiment, better clearing, faster, better, cheaper. That's what's going to change the industry. And I took a conscious decision in 2016, 10 years, by the way, now it's already 10 years, to go all in. And in 2017, I become a partner in the first cryptocurrency fund of hedge funds, BitBull Capital. We were the first SEC registered fund of hedge funds in the world. Looked at 1000 different strategies, mostly liquid. And then I was in Wave Financial, also pretty big fund. We had seven different strategies. We took it as the first whiskey distillery. We had IRA license, also one of the few firms that had it back in the days. Managed 1.5 billion on an AUM. Then I have three different startups and now I came back to the hedge fund world.

Gemma Allen

>> Wow. So really, this all began with blind faith and a recommendation from a good pal that has led you down the road. It's kind of hard to believe really, if you think about 2012 to 2026, in terms of what that even means for what we define as a commodity in the world of cryptocurrency and this kind of mad state of affairs we live in now. From your perspective, you've also done a really good job of building community in this space. You've built a very interesting online following. Talk a little bit about that side of it, about the kind of human engagement side of it, also kind of living your life quite publicly. How did you think and decide to kind of take that track? A lot of people live in the shadows of it in this space.

>> Well, to be frank, that came from a lot of pain and depression during COVID. So yes, COVID was one of the roughest moment for me on many levels. On a personal level, just overall. And I was trying to reinvent myself and trying to see what's going to happen next in my life. And I realized we're all locked down. There's not many things that are happening. And I have all those connections of incredible hedge fund managers. So I thought to myself, "I might as well just start doing Zoom sessions and interviews." My first guest was Dan Morehead, founder of Pantera Capital. That helped a lot, obviously. And I started my blog, so to speak, in holistic investments. So now it's, in retrospect, I have 650K following across different platforms. I have a distribution network of seven different podcasts and 100 plus guests, including Tim Draper, Anthony Scaramucci, Fabian Vogelsteller, and many other great names, co-founder of LinkedIn. And I would say just the desire to share this information... I didn't have any goal of monetization whatsoever. My goal was just to help others and to educate because I have relationship and I thought I can ask questions in a different way. And in the beginning, I think it was a lot of learning experience. My video quality was not great. My sound was not great. So I was learning a lot and taking feedback. Over time, now in retrospect, as you know, I already have a studio here in New York and a lot of the quality is very, very different. The caliber of guests is also incredible. So I do something which I love and I love that it can help others to learn something unique. So yeah, that's the short version of it.

Gemma Allen

>> Well, I have to tell you, I also had a terrible pandemic. I lost my mother and found the experience incredibly lonely as well. So it's so interesting that you turned it into something though so productive. I spent most of my time just crying in my bedroom. So I envy you somewhat that you turned the lemons into lemonade.

>> I did a lot of that too, by the way. It was a lot of crying and a lot of depression, but I realized, "Look, at some point you need to convert this pain into something productive," because otherwise I feel like it's taking away the opportunity to help others because... I've been doing a lot of psychotherapy, to be honest, and I realized that when you're just focused only on your own pain, and it's also... It might become a little bit selfish. It's like you are absorbing everything inside of you and it's like nuclear reaction. If you don't have this fusion that is coming out, you're not sharing the energy, it can explode. And it came not from like that because I'm so great and I persevered. No, it came from the need to give to others because I realized that's my survival technique. It was not because anything else, to be honest. I realized that if I'm not going to start giving, I'm going to blow up.

Gemma Allen

>> Well, speaking of pain, I want to talk to you about something we don't talk about all too often on Crypto Trailblazers, but a very important topic, I think, which is the decision to have opinion about things publicly. You said you're Ukrainian. I know we've spoken before about your family's situation. There's a lot happening in the world in 2026 in terms of wars and impacts and all of the frightening things that we seem quite protected from here in New York where we live in this bubble. It's also, I think, a dangerous time to speak publicly about topics, to have an opinion, especially when you're building an audience. How do you think about that?

>> I think if you have a moral compass, it's never a bad time to speak openly about things that you truly believe in. If you clearly defined what is... I wouldn't say what is right or wrong, but where your soul is and what is correct, what is evil, then at least you can talk about it. I think it's also important to be fully educated in this, not to spread more disinformation. That's the biggest fear. In Ukraine, it's very straightforward. Ukraine and still is a super peaceful nation. Never attacked anyone. There is no real precedent to even start this war. Now 25% of the territory is captured. Hundreds of thousand of people died for nothing. And you know the irony that like all wars end in two things, negotiation and peace. And in between, there's a lot of young men who are dying for nothing. So it's very sad that the ego of the modern era is so elevated that the, what I call warlords, the people who are actually giving these orders are just afraid to lose power. If we're going to be completely honest, that's the only reason why they continue this war. The war could have ended... And by the way, could end now in two days. By the way, all the generals, all the people in charge, they know about it. There is no will to end this war, because in between the chaos, you can also basically cover up a lot of things that are not great in your country.

Gemma Allen

>> For sure.

>> It's one thing if you have a great example of the culture of civilized society, and you go and you try to educate others, you try to help others, like let's say societies that are not that great and they're oppressing others, but in Ukraine, there was no need for that at all. So the most painful part that now we accepted it as a norm and that's-

Gemma Allen

>> It's the power of distraction too which we see here in the US as well in many parts of society, life. So let's talk about a topic that I find too is interesting and quite jarring, especially as a European. We often talk about the impact of war. We're here at the center of capital markets, and that is a priority for a lot of people in terms of how they think about energy prices, how they think about the impacts on the bottom lines of society. From a crypto perspective, this mad state of 2026 is also emerged at a time where we've had the rise of AI, the rise of information, mass information on social media, and there's also the new frontier of blockchain and cryptocurrencies and how they can help people globally. What are your thoughts in terms of how this industry meets the kind of geopolitical space that we're in?

>> Look, I think what we're seeing right now, every war has also economic incentives there and very clearly if you know... Let's imagine you know when the war would take place, when you will attack. Now you can speculate on this because you understand, let's say... We've seen this very clear with oil prices. How many people in Polymarket and Kalshi and other places made millions, if not hundreds of millions, when they get to know this information in between. And now predictive analytics with AI, actually they can help you to... You don't need to know exactly which day, but with a lot of confidence, even if you know at least like few days ahead of time what's going to happen and you understand that the war and the Strait of Hormuz like with Iran will be blocked where one of the... Like 25% of all oil trades come in from this region. I think that obviously... People knew that it's going to impact the price. So then you can obviously make a lot of money based just on this information. So how sad it is... People are always making money on this news, like famous New York Stock Exchange rule that, "Buy the rumors. Sell the fact." And I would say that as long as you understand the geopolitical situation in the world, you can use it at least to make more money and then send it to maybe charities. I don't know. I would hope that people who are making those money on the predictions, at least they will help others. I'm not sure that's the case.

Gemma Allen

>> I don't know. .

>> But yes, I do believe that there's a lot of speculation happening and the leaders of the countries are sadly acting more like big influencers, less as people who actually care about the humanity in the society, which is very ironic and sad. But at the same time, I would say that whatever is happening with the stock market, like right now it bounced back. We've seen very clearly like now S&P 500 on one of the old time high. And for Bitcoin specifically, by the way, we are getting into very new era. The Q1... I was reading this analytics that most of the people who sold was retail, by the way. About 62,000 Bitcoins were sold by retail, which is in the opposite that most of the traditional companies like governments and then ETFs and other hedge funds, they acquired Bitcoin. So institutional capital sees Bitcoin as a very long-term instrument and tool while retail is prone to panic, therefore they're liquidating it as one of the assets that is a little bit more scary and less understood for them. To be fair, it's an alternative asset class. So for a lot of folks who don't believe in the 10 year horizon, 100 year horizon, they would liquidate it much faster than even a stock. But for institutions, it's actually changing. It's the opposite. So it's a very interesting cycle. We've never seen this before.

Gemma Allen

>> Yeah. It's interesting. I actually know a lot of people who, like even in my personal life that sell it quite quickly. It just tends to be, like you say, the rhythm to this kind of part of financial markets from a retail perspective, for sure. Broadly speaking, the crypto industry though has had somewhat of a reimagination, especially in the public narrative. That is undoubted. There are though, like you mentioned, folks that think, "Is this a five year thing? Is this a two more year thing? Is it a 10 year thing? Does this really have longevity?" In the meantime, institutional investors are going all in a lot of ways. We see the infrastructure that's being built an institutional level. It's largely impressive. The skeptics still live though and they still have voice. What are your thoughts?

>> Well, considering like if you understand the deflationary structure of Bitcoin and you understand that there's already 20 million Bitcoin was already minted out of 21 million, and you understand that the complexity, also the technical side of it, that the halving will soon going to change, meaning that the rewards are going to be less. So I think based on that, let alone like the demand will only grow. It's actually the opposite of any inflationary currency that we see. Dollar... People don't talk about it. Dollar lost a lot of its value. It's not felt. It's not seen. But if you can actually, like if you analyze just the basic purchasing power of dollar, we didn't even have to talk about 30 years ago. Let's talk about like the past five to six years, it lost a tremendous amount of purchasing power. The Bitcoin as a long-term holding asset is actually given more adoption and given more acceptance, especially from the bigger institution. When you have BlackRocks of the world, like of the world, like Morgan Stanleys of the world, they're launching their ETFs. They're launching like a lot of like structured products and on their balance sheet, they hold it and they think about 10 year horizon. You understand that like it's only going to grow.

Gemma Allen

>> For sure.

>> And because there's less Bitcoin in circulation. And by the way, as a reminder to your viewers, 4 million allegedly are lost forever. So that we can assume there's only 60 million in real in circulation. 1 million, let's say, is in Satoshi's hands, right? And then, so it's like that's not a lot of circulating supply just to even purchase it from. So people predict from various firms that it can go to even a million. Therefore, I would recommend people to kind of be, I would say, still conservative about it and not deploy more than 5 to 10% to begin with because I'm not a great example. For me, I have 80 to 90% in crypto.

Gemma Allen

>> You're all in.

>> Yeah, I'm all in because I understand what I'm doing. I understand my risk. For people who are only starting, I would recommend to be going into 5 to 10%, learn more about it. And if you're not okay, if you don't like the complexity of, let's say, opening a crypto exchange account or let's say even getting your own wallet, by now you have ETFs.

Gemma Allen

>> Yeah, for sure. Well, listen, Constantin, I know we're up on time, but I'm going to finish with that one line. It's only going to grow. Let's leave it for Crypto Trailblazers here today. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

>> Thank you for having me on.

Gemma Allen

>> I'm Gemma Allen. This is theCUBE Studio at the New York Stock Exchange, and we are Crypto Trailblazers, part of our program with NYSE Wired. Thanks for watching.

Constantin Kogan, Holistic Capital

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Gemma Allen

>> Welcome back to theCUBE Studio here at the New York Stock Exchange. I'm Gemma Allen, and this is Crypto Trailblazers. It's part of our programming with NYSE Wired. And joining me today is Constantin Kogan, CEO and founder of Holistic Capital. Welcome, Constantin.

>> Thank you for having me, Gemma.

Gemma Allen

>> So for our listeners, viewers who might not be familiar, Holistic Capital, it sounds almost romantic. What exactly do you guys do?

>> Well, I love how you put it, romantic. Yes. We actually do trading. So algorithmic trading, we have multi-strategy, multi-assets, trading algorithmic. And mostly we focus on high frequency trading and basis carrier trade. And so far, we're focusing on Bitcoin. That's our primary asset.

Gemma Allen

>> Wow. Okay. And your own background. You started as somewhat of a psychology leaning space, right? Am I correct? Talk to me a little about the journey you've been on. What brought you to this?

>> Well, I started back in Ukraine when I was born. I was a futures and commodity trader. I was actually selling about 100,000 tons of physical , like weed, corn, barley, sunflower oil from Ukraine. And I really understood fast that we need to hedge our positions. And that's how I started to work Chicago Border of Trade. That was my first venue where I started to trade. Soybean future and many other commodities. And then my good friend, 2012, he told me that, "You have to buy Bitcoin." So I just blindly bought my five first Bitcoin. At BTC, not many people know it here. It was the biggest exchange between Eastern Europe and China back in the days. That was later seized by FBI, ironically. And I took all my money three months before, just by sheer luck, by the way. And that's how my journey started. I was a speculator. I was just trying to understand what it means, and I was trying to make money. Four years after, in retrospect, 2016, when Ethereum came out, to me, the idea sounded a little bit crazy, but then I promised myself that if the price goes to $10 and it's going to be more global adoption, smart contracts, I did understand something that it will change the entire industry, meaning the programmable money that will allow us to trade 24/7 and to have better sentiment, better clearing, faster, better, cheaper. That's what's going to change the industry. And I took a conscious decision in 2016, 10 years, by the way, now it's already 10 years, to go all in. And in 2017, I become a partner in the first cryptocurrency fund of hedge funds, BitBull Capital. We were the first SEC registered fund of hedge funds in the world. Looked at 1000 different strategies, mostly liquid. And then I was in Wave Financial, also pretty big fund. We had seven different strategies. We took it as the first whiskey distillery. We had IRA license, also one of the few firms that had it back in the days. Managed 1.5 billion on an AUM. Then I have three different startups and now I came back to the hedge fund world.

Gemma Allen

>> Wow. So really, this all began with blind faith and a recommendation from a good pal that has led you down the road. It's kind of hard to believe really, if you think about 2012 to 2026, in terms of what that even means for what we define as a commodity in the world of cryptocurrency and this kind of mad state of affairs we live in now. From your perspective, you've also done a really good job of building community in this space. You've built a very interesting online following. Talk a little bit about that side of it, about the kind of human engagement side of it, also kind of living your life quite publicly. How did you think and decide to kind of take that track? A lot of people live in the shadows of it in this space.

>> Well, to be frank, that came from a lot of pain and depression during COVID. So yes, COVID was one of the roughest moment for me on many levels. On a personal level, just overall. And I was trying to reinvent myself and trying to see what's going to happen next in my life. And I realized we're all locked down. There's not many things that are happening. And I have all those connections of incredible hedge fund managers. So I thought to myself, "I might as well just start doing Zoom sessions and interviews." My first guest was Dan Morehead, founder of Pantera Capital. That helped a lot, obviously. And I started my blog, so to speak, in holistic investments. So now it's, in retrospect, I have 650K following across different platforms. I have a distribution network of seven different podcasts and 100 plus guests, including Tim Draper, Anthony Scaramucci, Fabian Vogelsteller, and many other great names, co-founder of LinkedIn. And I would say just the desire to share this information... I didn't have any goal of monetization whatsoever. My goal was just to help others and to educate because I have relationship and I thought I can ask questions in a different way. And in the beginning, I think it was a lot of learning experience. My video quality was not great. My sound was not great. So I was learning a lot and taking feedback. Over time, now in retrospect, as you know, I already have a studio here in New York and a lot of the quality is very, very different. The caliber of guests is also incredible. So I do something which I love and I love that it can help others to learn something unique. So yeah, that's the short version of it.

Gemma Allen

>> Well, I have to tell you, I also had a terrible pandemic. I lost my mother and found the experience incredibly lonely as well. So it's so interesting that you turned it into something though so productive. I spent most of my time just crying in my bedroom. So I envy you somewhat that you turned the lemons into lemonade.

>> I did a lot of that too, by the way. It was a lot of crying and a lot of depression, but I realized, "Look, at some point you need to convert this pain into something productive," because otherwise I feel like it's taking away the opportunity to help others because... I've been doing a lot of psychotherapy, to be honest, and I realized that when you're just focused only on your own pain, and it's also... It might become a little bit selfish. It's like you are absorbing everything inside of you and it's like nuclear reaction. If you don't have this fusion that is coming out, you're not sharing the energy, it can explode. And it came not from like that because I'm so great and I persevered. No, it came from the need to give to others because I realized that's my survival technique. It was not because anything else, to be honest. I realized that if I'm not going to start giving, I'm going to blow up.

Gemma Allen

>> Well, speaking of pain, I want to talk to you about something we don't talk about all too often on Crypto Trailblazers, but a very important topic, I think, which is the decision to have opinion about things publicly. You said you're Ukrainian. I know we've spoken before about your family's situation. There's a lot happening in the world in 2026 in terms of wars and impacts and all of the frightening things that we seem quite protected from here in New York where we live in this bubble. It's also, I think, a dangerous time to speak publicly about topics, to have an opinion, especially when you're building an audience. How do you think about that?

>> I think if you have a moral compass, it's never a bad time to speak openly about things that you truly believe in. If you clearly defined what is... I wouldn't say what is right or wrong, but where your soul is and what is correct, what is evil, then at least you can talk about it. I think it's also important to be fully educated in this, not to spread more disinformation. That's the biggest fear. In Ukraine, it's very straightforward. Ukraine and still is a super peaceful nation. Never attacked anyone. There is no real precedent to even start this war. Now 25% of the territory is captured. Hundreds of thousand of people died for nothing. And you know the irony that like all wars end in two things, negotiation and peace. And in between, there's a lot of young men who are dying for nothing. So it's very sad that the ego of the modern era is so elevated that the, what I call warlords, the people who are actually giving these orders are just afraid to lose power. If we're going to be completely honest, that's the only reason why they continue this war. The war could have ended... And by the way, could end now in two days. By the way, all the generals, all the people in charge, they know about it. There is no will to end this war, because in between the chaos, you can also basically cover up a lot of things that are not great in your country.

Gemma Allen

>> For sure.

>> It's one thing if you have a great example of the culture of civilized society, and you go and you try to educate others, you try to help others, like let's say societies that are not that great and they're oppressing others, but in Ukraine, there was no need for that at all. So the most painful part that now we accepted it as a norm and that's-

Gemma Allen

>> It's the power of distraction too which we see here in the US as well in many parts of society, life. So let's talk about a topic that I find too is interesting and quite jarring, especially as a European. We often talk about the impact of war. We're here at the center of capital markets, and that is a priority for a lot of people in terms of how they think about energy prices, how they think about the impacts on the bottom lines of society. From a crypto perspective, this mad state of 2026 is also emerged at a time where we've had the rise of AI, the rise of information, mass information on social media, and there's also the new frontier of blockchain and cryptocurrencies and how they can help people globally. What are your thoughts in terms of how this industry meets the kind of geopolitical space that we're in?

>> Look, I think what we're seeing right now, every war has also economic incentives there and very clearly if you know... Let's imagine you know when the war would take place, when you will attack. Now you can speculate on this because you understand, let's say... We've seen this very clear with oil prices. How many people in Polymarket and Kalshi and other places made millions, if not hundreds of millions, when they get to know this information in between. And now predictive analytics with AI, actually they can help you to... You don't need to know exactly which day, but with a lot of confidence, even if you know at least like few days ahead of time what's going to happen and you understand that the war and the Strait of Hormuz like with Iran will be blocked where one of the... Like 25% of all oil trades come in from this region. I think that obviously... People knew that it's going to impact the price. So then you can obviously make a lot of money based just on this information. So how sad it is... People are always making money on this news, like famous New York Stock Exchange rule that, "Buy the rumors. Sell the fact." And I would say that as long as you understand the geopolitical situation in the world, you can use it at least to make more money and then send it to maybe charities. I don't know. I would hope that people who are making those money on the predictions, at least they will help others. I'm not sure that's the case.

Gemma Allen

>> I don't know. .

>> But yes, I do believe that there's a lot of speculation happening and the leaders of the countries are sadly acting more like big influencers, less as people who actually care about the humanity in the society, which is very ironic and sad. But at the same time, I would say that whatever is happening with the stock market, like right now it bounced back. We've seen very clearly like now S&P 500 on one of the old time high. And for Bitcoin specifically, by the way, we are getting into very new era. The Q1... I was reading this analytics that most of the people who sold was retail, by the way. About 62,000 Bitcoins were sold by retail, which is in the opposite that most of the traditional companies like governments and then ETFs and other hedge funds, they acquired Bitcoin. So institutional capital sees Bitcoin as a very long-term instrument and tool while retail is prone to panic, therefore they're liquidating it as one of the assets that is a little bit more scary and less understood for them. To be fair, it's an alternative asset class. So for a lot of folks who don't believe in the 10 year horizon, 100 year horizon, they would liquidate it much faster than even a stock. But for institutions, it's actually changing. It's the opposite. So it's a very interesting cycle. We've never seen this before.

Gemma Allen

>> Yeah. It's interesting. I actually know a lot of people who, like even in my personal life that sell it quite quickly. It just tends to be, like you say, the rhythm to this kind of part of financial markets from a retail perspective, for sure. Broadly speaking, the crypto industry though has had somewhat of a reimagination, especially in the public narrative. That is undoubted. There are though, like you mentioned, folks that think, "Is this a five year thing? Is this a two more year thing? Is it a 10 year thing? Does this really have longevity?" In the meantime, institutional investors are going all in a lot of ways. We see the infrastructure that's being built an institutional level. It's largely impressive. The skeptics still live though and they still have voice. What are your thoughts?

>> Well, considering like if you understand the deflationary structure of Bitcoin and you understand that there's already 20 million Bitcoin was already minted out of 21 million, and you understand that the complexity, also the technical side of it, that the halving will soon going to change, meaning that the rewards are going to be less. So I think based on that, let alone like the demand will only grow. It's actually the opposite of any inflationary currency that we see. Dollar... People don't talk about it. Dollar lost a lot of its value. It's not felt. It's not seen. But if you can actually, like if you analyze just the basic purchasing power of dollar, we didn't even have to talk about 30 years ago. Let's talk about like the past five to six years, it lost a tremendous amount of purchasing power. The Bitcoin as a long-term holding asset is actually given more adoption and given more acceptance, especially from the bigger institution. When you have BlackRocks of the world, like of the world, like Morgan Stanleys of the world, they're launching their ETFs. They're launching like a lot of like structured products and on their balance sheet, they hold it and they think about 10 year horizon. You understand that like it's only going to grow.

Gemma Allen

>> For sure.

>> And because there's less Bitcoin in circulation. And by the way, as a reminder to your viewers, 4 million allegedly are lost forever. So that we can assume there's only 60 million in real in circulation. 1 million, let's say, is in Satoshi's hands, right? And then, so it's like that's not a lot of circulating supply just to even purchase it from. So people predict from various firms that it can go to even a million. Therefore, I would recommend people to kind of be, I would say, still conservative about it and not deploy more than 5 to 10% to begin with because I'm not a great example. For me, I have 80 to 90% in crypto.

Gemma Allen

>> You're all in.

>> Yeah, I'm all in because I understand what I'm doing. I understand my risk. For people who are only starting, I would recommend to be going into 5 to 10%, learn more about it. And if you're not okay, if you don't like the complexity of, let's say, opening a crypto exchange account or let's say even getting your own wallet, by now you have ETFs.

Gemma Allen

>> Yeah, for sure. Well, listen, Constantin, I know we're up on time, but I'm going to finish with that one line. It's only going to grow. Let's leave it for Crypto Trailblazers here today. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

>> Thank you for having me on.

Gemma Allen

>> I'm Gemma Allen. This is theCUBE Studio at the New York Stock Exchange, and we are Crypto Trailblazers, part of our program with NYSE Wired. Thanks for watching.