KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe 2024 | KubeCon EU 2024 Wrap

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Dustin Kirkland

VP of Engineering

Chainguard

Savannah Peterson

Principal Analyst & Host

SiliconANGLE Media, Inc.

Rob Strechay

Dir./Principal Analyst & Host

theCUBE Research

Three insights you might have missed from the ‘KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe’ event

Kubernetes has reached a pivotal moment in its 10-year history, a milestone celebrated throughout the entirety of this year’s KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe.Its ubiquity has brought the open-source container management system into the mainstream, delivering new opportunities to meet the challenges of the artificial intelligence era. As the developer community has watched the Kubernetes ecosystem mature, this year’s KubeCon was expected to focus on deployment use cases and provide a chance to see developments as projects moved from the sandbox phase to incubating and eventually graduation. Those opportunities were a central focus for our analysts, reporting onsite

Kubernetes: The driving force behind cloud-native evolution, theCUBE final analysis at KubeCon EU

As KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe 2024 draws to a close, the event leaves behind a rich tapestry of insights and advancements in the world of cloud computing and Kubernetes.This year’s conference, marked by its vibrant atmosphere of nostalgia mixed with forward-looking enthusiasm, celebrated the significant milestone of Kubernetes’ tenth anniversary. Attendees and speakers alike delved into retrospective discussions about Kubernetes’ transformative journey over the past decade while also casting a keen eye on its future, particularly in the realms of artificial intelligence integration and the evolving landscape of cloud-native technologies

play_circle_outline Anticipating an Enthralling KubeCon Cloud Native Con: Busy Show Floor and Community Buzz Arouse Excitement

play_circle_outline Growth and maturity of the ecosystem

play_circle_outline Revolutionary Progress in London's Future: Anticipated Changes, Advancements, and Upcoming Conferences Unveiled!

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KubeCon EU 2024 Wrap

Dustin Kirkland

VP of Engineering Chainguard

Savannah Peterson

Principal Analyst & Host SiliconANGLE Media, Inc.

HOST

Rob Strechay

Dir./Principal Analyst & Host theCUBE Research

HOST

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(ethereal music begins)

>> Good afternoon, nerd fam, and welcome back to KubeCon, Cloud Native Con, CNCFs biggest European event. And actually the biggest KubeCon there has ever been. Very exciting week. My name is Savannah Peterson, joined by three really rad dudes right now. I am looking forward to our show wrap. Joep, we've got Dustin and we've got Rob. I want to hear all your hot takes. I want to hear what you expected, what didn't happen, what's missing, where we're going. Joep, I'm starting with you, 'cause we haven't had you on yet this week.

>> Yeah, so I came here with expectations of it being a KubeCon, me being in sessions. And that didn't happen at all, because the show floor is so busy, I just could not walk for five meters without bumping into someone. So my expectations were, okay, but it just knocked it out of the park.

>> Absolutely, the energy, the community, it's just buzzing. And I feel like I was thinking about it, out to dinner actually, when we were out to dinner earlier this week, of just what a family this is. It really does feel like, I'm like, oh, I'm just going to go hang out with all my buds in Paris. And we call this work? I mean, yeah. What about you, Dustin? What are your expectations versus reality?

>> Well, totally agree with Joep on the show floor. Absolutely packed. Really good interest across the board from community developers, some maybe new to the open source and CNCF community, but a lot of enterprise interests, a lot of EU enterprise interest in the various solutions that are surrounding us here on the show floor.

>> Yeah, I thought it was same thing. I was overwhelmed by the floor here. I just spent that last hour, I think I went to three booths and had three very long conversations about very interesting stuff that I didn't even realize was going on underneath the hood and some of these projects. And I think that to me was one of the keys, is that the amount of projects that are going on is just massive, and the community is massive. And as you guys were saying, it's like 51% new people into the show, which about equates to about the number of new people that were at, a little bit more new people at this show than were even at the one in Amsterdam a year ago, where it was about 60% of 10,000. You have 51% of 12,300, it's about the same. So, I mean, statistics wise, it's pretty impressive.

>> Great trajectory.

>> Yeah, it is really impressive. And I think we're reaching a new stage of maturity within the ecosystem as well. It's a lot less hype. Kubernetes is actually being deployed edge. I think the AI stack is actually driving a bit of that as well. So I think we're at a place where this isn't just a project. People aren't thinking about it, we're actually implementing and seeing what that looks like. Joep, what do you think has been the biggest change since you and I were seated next to each other in Amsterdam?

>> Ooh, so the biggest change, I think is that, this show is more about the cloud native stuff than it is about Kubernetes. So I'm looking forward to that name change next year. But I think it is getting boring in a sense that Kubernetes, Kubernetes is just mature. Like you say, people are implementing it. We have the mature solutions around it. We have the ecosystem. That means we can now focus on the part that I think is way more interesting, even though I am an infrastructure engineer by my history, we're looking at the developer, how to empower them, how to enable them to actually build something that makes sense for the business. And that's what excites me in the show, is actually having those conversations about what the developers need, what the business needs. And we're kind of in a phase where we can just say, okay, the infrastructure part, it's there, it's commodity, again, which I just enjoy.

>> I think you're absolutely right. I think, would you agree?

>> I mean I think it's dead on. And I mean, if you look at, by the numbers that they were showing, from a contributions and number of people contributing, Back page, or backstage, not back page. That's a whole different thing. But backstage.

>> We've said a lot of words up here and we're both dyslexic, so it's a danger zone out here. Buckle your seat belts folks.

>> Yes, this is, this is going to be fun. But backstage has more individual contributors than any of the other projects that are out there. It may not have all of the contributions, but to me that's the developer. That's the interface between platform engineering and developer. And I think we've heard through a number of the discussions we've had this week, how do you make that, how do you make platform engineering understand what the developers need? And oh, by the way, now you've got this guy called a data scientist who's trying to put other things and models in places that models haven't been before. And oh, by the way, the developer has to go, okay, where is this and how do I do that? And so I think focus on the developer, focus on cloud native. I agree, and I think the one thing was clear to me, if you look at the shirt, big letters, cloud native, small letters, Kubernetes. I think they are going that way, and I think they are. I mean, I think it should swap the names around, but I think it's great stuff.

>> Are they changing the name?

>> Joep: I don't know.

>> Oh, that was just you. That was you. Okay, I wasn't sure if that that was an announcement that was made.

>> We're voting that direction, that's what you can say. We're balloting out for it.

>> That's not too dissimilar from Linux, right? You say Linux and that's this like tiny little piece that's the kernel of an operating system, and then out of that builds an OS, and then out of that build everything on top of that. But Linux is this one word, and that's kind of Kubernetes at the heart of so many other things that, you know, once you really take the macro view, you end up in the whole philosophy of cloud native management at the platform side and application development from a developer's perspective.

>> So you're saying it's marketing.

>> Sure, yeah.

>> What's wrong with marketing?

>> Nothing wrong with that. It is shorter and they have a nice little acronym of KASE. I mean, again, I get it, but I think I'm happy, like Joep is happy, that the focus is changing towards the developer and cloud native. And I know you are too.

>> And it's not just the developer, and I haven't seen it that clearly on the show floor this week, but I have seen hints of this starting to happen where we're kind of integrating the data science side of this into the cloud native world. So we're applying DevOps principles to not just Dev and Ops, we're applying them to the data science realm as well. Which means we're now more and more set up, and this is going to continue for a couple of years, where we're just more set up to also have all of those data stories integrated into all of the stuff that we're doing here, from DevX, to infrastructure, to AI, and everything in between. So that's going to be exciting, I think, in the next couple of years, to see how much of that data world is going to integrate in the world that we know in the cloud native space.

>> Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. So building on that a little bit, since you know I love to ask this question, what are we going to be able to say in London that we can't say here? Joep, I'm going to you first, you've got a cheeky grin.

>> Yeah, so I'm going to go to data science, right? We're going to see the integration of those skills into the teams that we already have instead of them being siloed off on the side of an organization. But it's going to take a little while. So maybe not London, maybe the year after, we'll see.

>> Yeah, when we're back in Amsterdam. That'll be fun. Yeah, yeah, what about you? What do you think, Rob? What what are we going to be talking about in London, or Salt Lake, if you feel really bold?

>> Yeah, I mean, Salt Lake, I think we're going to have a lot, I think even in Salt Lake, and we kind of touched on it this morning, that security for AI and Kubernetes inside the platform, end-to-end security for cloud native apps that are data based and data products. And I think that's going to really be a big piece of Salt Lake, and building on that into London as well.

>> Dustin.

>> I'm going to go with the GPU utilization problem being solved. We heard a little bit about that, and just now released very recently in Kubernetes 1.30 we start seeing some of the DRA advances we talked about on Wednesday. The persistent, if it's not a GPU shortage, just the demand, the over demand for GPUs. And yet inside of clusters, not entirely fully well utilized. Also in the keynote this morning, we saw some workloads performing at certain sizes better on CPUs. And so I think probably by Salt Lake, but if not, certainly by London, I think that piece will be a solved problem, really, deep down in the scheduler around resource utilization.

>> I think that's a bold prediction. I think you're giving people a lot of credit.

>> Dustin: Well, we'll see.

>> Yeah.

>> Dustin: I trust this community. You're skeptical.

>> I'm skeptical that in six months we're going to have solved the GPU problem.

>> Oh, well, I didn't say solve the GPU problem, utilization.

>> But even there, I think people are just now architecting their AI strategy. They've obviously, I mean, many organizations have had some division of this, but we're in a real inflection point there. And so we're going to be doing different things, solving different problems, asking different questions. I don't think we can solve the utilization problem until we understand all the problems we're going to be solving for. And I think we're still discovering that, quite frankly.

>> I think you're dead on. And I think what was.

>> Savannah: Thanks Rob.

>> What was actually, yeah, no, I mean, great insights. You're not just a pretty face. So we know that. But I think what's great is you have people coming to the table like Nvidia, even though it's GTC week as well, was here donating code and creating APIs. I think when we had Oracle on this morning talking about how she's advocating, because they're not just using GPUs, they're using CPUs, and you have TPUs over at Google and other stuff. They're advocating for standards for interfaces to those GPUs, which I think then helps to get to solve exactly what Dustin is talking about. And I think it's good to hear that that has surfaced. I think Salt Lake will also be aggressive, but hey, you got to put targets out there and see if they can get 'em, so.

>> I love it, I respect it. I respect a bold claim no matter what. I would love if we've optimized that though, and I mean that'll make everything more sustainable. There's a lot of benefits of that happening, I believe in the cloud native community. I just don't necessarily believe that enterprise has figured out AI yet, and that affects GPU strategy. So it's kind of, yeah, it's less that. It's not that I don't trust the wonderful people in this room.

>> You're spot on. It'll take a little bit longer to generally solve that problem.

>> We're in Paris, Joep, what was the best thing you ate this week?

>> Oh, the croissant. The first one.

>> Melty, buttery. I actually haven't had one yet. And now I realize I need to. I'm now immediately hungry. What about you, Dustin? You had a pretty swanky, once in a lifetime meal.

>> I did, that was pretty spectacular. Last night I actually had champagne and caviar, though.

>> Savannah: Two of my favorite things. Literally, that's it.

>> Yeah, I'll just stop there. (all laugh)

>> I'm jealous, I'm going to have to figure out where he went after the show. What about you, Rob? Best thing you ate?

>> Yeah, I still go back to the bread. I mean, the bread that doesn't upset your stomach when you ate like 13 loaves of it.

>> Savannah: No kidding.

>> With cheese, with good cheese.

>> Savannah: Oh, the cheese.

>> Cheese and good bread, I mean, just unbelievable.

>> It is, it is absolutely unbelievable. It's going to be really tough to top Paris as a location. I mean.

>> Rob: What, you don't think London has food like that?

>> I mean.

>> Oh wait, wait.

>> I thought you were going to say Salt Lake.

>> Throw down the gauntlet, where do you want to go? If you had the master plan and could select, after these next four are planned, but Savvy, where would we go?

>> Oh, that's a great question. Well, I'm a warm weather person who loves wine. So I would say somewhere in Italy. I'd do like Florence if I were to pick somewhere, and then have a little Tuscan vacation on the back end.

>> 20 years of conferences and I have never been to Italy for a conference.

>> I've been invited to speak in Italy once, and it was one of the best business trips I had ever.

>> I did a conference in Rome. And Rome is capable of doing it and has the space. It's also easy to get in and out of, but it's not as, it's not Florence, but it's still very, and the food, I think Rome would be excellent.

>> We're just planting that seed. We're planting that seed.

>> Not that we have any power here

>> I'll take Rome or Barcelona. I mean, I think.

>> I could see it being, I actually, I thought it might be Barcelona. I mean, we were just there for MWC, it's a great city.

>> Madrid's great too. I mean, if we're talking Spain, Madrid. So much fun, good food too.

>> Yeah, basically we just want to eat, and talk about Kubernetes, and have some champagne. It's rough life out here on theCUBE.

>> Yeah, very rough. Very rough.

>> We had some really excellent guests on the show this week. We had Red Hat, we had Cassandra Chin, who is the 20-year-old author of an illustrated children's book about Kubernetes and AI. Which even saying that sentence out loud is amazing. She is so inspiring. Lots of inspiring people. We also had the CNCF Deaf and Hard of Hearing group just on right before this. And it matters. It matters, we are privileged people, and I think it's great that there is that working group. It's been less than a year. But also that they're really trying to make all events, not just here in Nerdland, more accessible for the deaf and hard of hearing.

>> Inclusive.

>> Yeah, and inclusive, and even illustrated by the fact that they invite hearing folks into their community as well. It's not meant to be, and I don't think I would've intuitively thought about that. Normally I would've thought I was overbearing or kind of inserting myself in that situation. So I'm actually going to personally check it out, 'cause it's been really.

>> Yeah, I think it's about having allies and abilities, and we were actually talking off set while you were on doing that segment, that it's about neurodiversity in actually developing these projects. And you get such a better outcome when you bring more diversity to that table. You know, not just deaf and blind and those abilities, but all kinds of backgrounds as well. And I think that's such a key and I love that

>> And you see the results of this, because this show is, and I've had this conversation a couple times over this week. The people that are at this show is not typical for the typical nerd show. And I just love the fact that we put in the work as a community years ago and we have a result. We can actually see the difference.

>> Rob: Yeah, I agree.

>> Yeah, I mean, it's one, it does feel, as a woman in tech, and a woman who's been in tech for a long time, there's a lot of ladies here. There's a lot of non-binary folks here. And I love that that's celebrated. It's celebrated even in the cloud native foundation's characters, there are non-binary cartoon characters. I mean, that in itself is pretty magical. It's nice to know that we're a part of such an inclusive community. And on that note, Joep, Dustin, Rob, thank you so much for joining me. This has been an absolutely fantastic three days of dozens of interviews here at KubeCon Cloud Native Con in Paris, France. Signing off for the last time, my name's Savannah Peterson. You're watching theCUBE, the leading source for enterprise tech news. (ethereal music begins)

KubeCon EU 2024 Wrap

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(ethereal music begins)

>> Good afternoon, nerd fam, and welcome back to KubeCon, Cloud Native Con, CNCFs biggest European event. And actually the biggest KubeCon there has ever been. Very exciting week. My name is Savannah Peterson, joined by three really rad dudes right now. I am looking forward to our show wrap. Joep, we've got Dustin and we've got Rob. I want to hear all your hot takes. I want to hear what you expected, what didn't happen, what's missing, where we're going. Joep, I'm starting with you, 'cause we haven't had you on yet this week.

>> Yeah, so I came here with expectations of it being a KubeCon, me being in sessions. And that didn't happen at all, because the show floor is so busy, I just could not walk for five meters without bumping into someone. So my expectations were, okay, but it just knocked it out of the park.

>> Absolutely, the energy, the community, it's just buzzing. And I feel like I was thinking about it, out to dinner actually, when we were out to dinner earlier this week, of just what a family this is. It really does feel like, I'm like, oh, I'm just going to go hang out with all my buds in Paris. And we call this work? I mean, yeah. What about you, Dustin? What are your expectations versus reality?

>> Well, totally agree with Joep on the show floor. Absolutely packed. Really good interest across the board from community developers, some maybe new to the open source and CNCF community, but a lot of enterprise interests, a lot of EU enterprise interest in the various solutions that are surrounding us here on the show floor.

>> Yeah, I thought it was same thing. I was overwhelmed by the floor here. I just spent that last hour, I think I went to three booths and had three very long conversations about very interesting stuff that I didn't even realize was going on underneath the hood and some of these projects. And I think that to me was one of the keys, is that the amount of projects that are going on is just massive, and the community is massive. And as you guys were saying, it's like 51% new people into the show, which about equates to about the number of new people that were at, a little bit more new people at this show than were even at the one in Amsterdam a year ago, where it was about 60% of 10,000. You have 51% of 12,300, it's about the same. So, I mean, statistics wise, it's pretty impressive.

>> Great trajectory.

>> Yeah, it is really impressive. And I think we're reaching a new stage of maturity within the ecosystem as well. It's a lot less hype. Kubernetes is actually being deployed edge. I think the AI stack is actually driving a bit of that as well. So I think we're at a place where this isn't just a project. People aren't thinking about it, we're actually implementing and seeing what that looks like. Joep, what do you think has been the biggest change since you and I were seated next to each other in Amsterdam?

>> Ooh, so the biggest change, I think is that, this show is more about the cloud native stuff than it is about Kubernetes. So I'm looking forward to that name change next year. But I think it is getting boring in a sense that Kubernetes, Kubernetes is just mature. Like you say, people are implementing it. We have the mature solutions around it. We have the ecosystem. That means we can now focus on the part that I think is way more interesting, even though I am an infrastructure engineer by my history, we're looking at the developer, how to empower them, how to enable them to actually build something that makes sense for the business. And that's what excites me in the show, is actually having those conversations about what the developers need, what the business needs. And we're kind of in a phase where we can just say, okay, the infrastructure part, it's there, it's commodity, again, which I just enjoy.

>> I think you're absolutely right. I think, would you agree?

>> I mean I think it's dead on. And I mean, if you look at, by the numbers that they were showing, from a contributions and number of people contributing, Back page, or backstage, not back page. That's a whole different thing. But backstage.

>> We've said a lot of words up here and we're both dyslexic, so it's a danger zone out here. Buckle your seat belts folks.

>> Yes, this is, this is going to be fun. But backstage has more individual contributors than any of the other projects that are out there. It may not have all of the contributions, but to me that's the developer. That's the interface between platform engineering and developer. And I think we've heard through a number of the discussions we've had this week, how do you make that, how do you make platform engineering understand what the developers need? And oh, by the way, now you've got this guy called a data scientist who's trying to put other things and models in places that models haven't been before. And oh, by the way, the developer has to go, okay, where is this and how do I do that? And so I think focus on the developer, focus on cloud native. I agree, and I think the one thing was clear to me, if you look at the shirt, big letters, cloud native, small letters, Kubernetes. I think they are going that way, and I think they are. I mean, I think it should swap the names around, but I think it's great stuff.

>> Are they changing the name?

>> Joep: I don't know.

>> Oh, that was just you. That was you. Okay, I wasn't sure if that that was an announcement that was made.

>> We're voting that direction, that's what you can say. We're balloting out for it.

>> That's not too dissimilar from Linux, right? You say Linux and that's this like tiny little piece that's the kernel of an operating system, and then out of that builds an OS, and then out of that build everything on top of that. But Linux is this one word, and that's kind of Kubernetes at the heart of so many other things that, you know, once you really take the macro view, you end up in the whole philosophy of cloud native management at the platform side and application development from a developer's perspective.

>> So you're saying it's marketing.

>> Sure, yeah.

>> What's wrong with marketing?

>> Nothing wrong with that. It is shorter and they have a nice little acronym of KASE. I mean, again, I get it, but I think I'm happy, like Joep is happy, that the focus is changing towards the developer and cloud native. And I know you are too.

>> And it's not just the developer, and I haven't seen it that clearly on the show floor this week, but I have seen hints of this starting to happen where we're kind of integrating the data science side of this into the cloud native world. So we're applying DevOps principles to not just Dev and Ops, we're applying them to the data science realm as well. Which means we're now more and more set up, and this is going to continue for a couple of years, where we're just more set up to also have all of those data stories integrated into all of the stuff that we're doing here, from DevX, to infrastructure, to AI, and everything in between. So that's going to be exciting, I think, in the next couple of years, to see how much of that data world is going to integrate in the world that we know in the cloud native space.

>> Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. So building on that a little bit, since you know I love to ask this question, what are we going to be able to say in London that we can't say here? Joep, I'm going to you first, you've got a cheeky grin.

>> Yeah, so I'm going to go to data science, right? We're going to see the integration of those skills into the teams that we already have instead of them being siloed off on the side of an organization. But it's going to take a little while. So maybe not London, maybe the year after, we'll see.

>> Yeah, when we're back in Amsterdam. That'll be fun. Yeah, yeah, what about you? What do you think, Rob? What what are we going to be talking about in London, or Salt Lake, if you feel really bold?

>> Yeah, I mean, Salt Lake, I think we're going to have a lot, I think even in Salt Lake, and we kind of touched on it this morning, that security for AI and Kubernetes inside the platform, end-to-end security for cloud native apps that are data based and data products. And I think that's going to really be a big piece of Salt Lake, and building on that into London as well.

>> Dustin.

>> I'm going to go with the GPU utilization problem being solved. We heard a little bit about that, and just now released very recently in Kubernetes 1.30 we start seeing some of the DRA advances we talked about on Wednesday. The persistent, if it's not a GPU shortage, just the demand, the over demand for GPUs. And yet inside of clusters, not entirely fully well utilized. Also in the keynote this morning, we saw some workloads performing at certain sizes better on CPUs. And so I think probably by Salt Lake, but if not, certainly by London, I think that piece will be a solved problem, really, deep down in the scheduler around resource utilization.

>> I think that's a bold prediction. I think you're giving people a lot of credit.

>> Dustin: Well, we'll see.

>> Yeah.

>> Dustin: I trust this community. You're skeptical.

>> I'm skeptical that in six months we're going to have solved the GPU problem.

>> Oh, well, I didn't say solve the GPU problem, utilization.

>> But even there, I think people are just now architecting their AI strategy. They've obviously, I mean, many organizations have had some division of this, but we're in a real inflection point there. And so we're going to be doing different things, solving different problems, asking different questions. I don't think we can solve the utilization problem until we understand all the problems we're going to be solving for. And I think we're still discovering that, quite frankly.

>> I think you're dead on. And I think what was.

>> Savannah: Thanks Rob.

>> What was actually, yeah, no, I mean, great insights. You're not just a pretty face. So we know that. But I think what's great is you have people coming to the table like Nvidia, even though it's GTC week as well, was here donating code and creating APIs. I think when we had Oracle on this morning talking about how she's advocating, because they're not just using GPUs, they're using CPUs, and you have TPUs over at Google and other stuff. They're advocating for standards for interfaces to those GPUs, which I think then helps to get to solve exactly what Dustin is talking about. And I think it's good to hear that that has surfaced. I think Salt Lake will also be aggressive, but hey, you got to put targets out there and see if they can get 'em, so.

>> I love it, I respect it. I respect a bold claim no matter what. I would love if we've optimized that though, and I mean that'll make everything more sustainable. There's a lot of benefits of that happening, I believe in the cloud native community. I just don't necessarily believe that enterprise has figured out AI yet, and that affects GPU strategy. So it's kind of, yeah, it's less that. It's not that I don't trust the wonderful people in this room.

>> You're spot on. It'll take a little bit longer to generally solve that problem.

>> We're in Paris, Joep, what was the best thing you ate this week?

>> Oh, the croissant. The first one.

>> Melty, buttery. I actually haven't had one yet. And now I realize I need to. I'm now immediately hungry. What about you, Dustin? You had a pretty swanky, once in a lifetime meal.

>> I did, that was pretty spectacular. Last night I actually had champagne and caviar, though.

>> Savannah: Two of my favorite things. Literally, that's it.

>> Yeah, I'll just stop there. (all laugh)

>> I'm jealous, I'm going to have to figure out where he went after the show. What about you, Rob? Best thing you ate?

>> Yeah, I still go back to the bread. I mean, the bread that doesn't upset your stomach when you ate like 13 loaves of it.

>> Savannah: No kidding.

>> With cheese, with good cheese.

>> Savannah: Oh, the cheese.

>> Cheese and good bread, I mean, just unbelievable.

>> It is, it is absolutely unbelievable. It's going to be really tough to top Paris as a location. I mean.

>> Rob: What, you don't think London has food like that?

>> I mean.

>> Oh wait, wait.

>> I thought you were going to say Salt Lake.

>> Throw down the gauntlet, where do you want to go? If you had the master plan and could select, after these next four are planned, but Savvy, where would we go?

>> Oh, that's a great question. Well, I'm a warm weather person who loves wine. So I would say somewhere in Italy. I'd do like Florence if I were to pick somewhere, and then have a little Tuscan vacation on the back end.

>> 20 years of conferences and I have never been to Italy for a conference.

>> I've been invited to speak in Italy once, and it was one of the best business trips I had ever.

>> I did a conference in Rome. And Rome is capable of doing it and has the space. It's also easy to get in and out of, but it's not as, it's not Florence, but it's still very, and the food, I think Rome would be excellent.

>> We're just planting that seed. We're planting that seed.

>> Not that we have any power here

>> I'll take Rome or Barcelona. I mean, I think.

>> I could see it being, I actually, I thought it might be Barcelona. I mean, we were just there for MWC, it's a great city.

>> Madrid's great too. I mean, if we're talking Spain, Madrid. So much fun, good food too.

>> Yeah, basically we just want to eat, and talk about Kubernetes, and have some champagne. It's rough life out here on theCUBE.

>> Yeah, very rough. Very rough.

>> We had some really excellent guests on the show this week. We had Red Hat, we had Cassandra Chin, who is the 20-year-old author of an illustrated children's book about Kubernetes and AI. Which even saying that sentence out loud is amazing. She is so inspiring. Lots of inspiring people. We also had the CNCF Deaf and Hard of Hearing group just on right before this. And it matters. It matters, we are privileged people, and I think it's great that there is that working group. It's been less than a year. But also that they're really trying to make all events, not just here in Nerdland, more accessible for the deaf and hard of hearing.

>> Inclusive.

>> Yeah, and inclusive, and even illustrated by the fact that they invite hearing folks into their community as well. It's not meant to be, and I don't think I would've intuitively thought about that. Normally I would've thought I was overbearing or kind of inserting myself in that situation. So I'm actually going to personally check it out, 'cause it's been really.

>> Yeah, I think it's about having allies and abilities, and we were actually talking off set while you were on doing that segment, that it's about neurodiversity in actually developing these projects. And you get such a better outcome when you bring more diversity to that table. You know, not just deaf and blind and those abilities, but all kinds of backgrounds as well. And I think that's such a key and I love that

>> And you see the results of this, because this show is, and I've had this conversation a couple times over this week. The people that are at this show is not typical for the typical nerd show. And I just love the fact that we put in the work as a community years ago and we have a result. We can actually see the difference.

>> Rob: Yeah, I agree.

>> Yeah, I mean, it's one, it does feel, as a woman in tech, and a woman who's been in tech for a long time, there's a lot of ladies here. There's a lot of non-binary folks here. And I love that that's celebrated. It's celebrated even in the cloud native foundation's characters, there are non-binary cartoon characters. I mean, that in itself is pretty magical. It's nice to know that we're a part of such an inclusive community. And on that note, Joep, Dustin, Rob, thank you so much for joining me. This has been an absolutely fantastic three days of dozens of interviews here at KubeCon Cloud Native Con in Paris, France. Signing off for the last time, my name's Savannah Peterson. You're watching theCUBE, the leading source for enterprise tech news. (ethereal music begins)