MWC25 | Tom Essery, Timex & David Cipoletta, Pison

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More from MWC25

Thomas Essery

CTO, VP R&D

Timex

David Cipoletta

Chief Technology Office

Pison

play_circle_outline Background on Python's technology focusing on neuromuscular signals in wearables.

play_circle_outline Applications of Python's sensors in gesture control, sleep tracking, and healthcare.

play_circle_outline Importance of understanding cognitive load, anxiety, and peak performance in various industries.

play_circle_outline Wearable Technology: Society's Acceptance of the Wrist Form Factor

play_circle_outline Expanding Python Technology to Democratize Sensor Innovation in Wearable Devices

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Transcript

Tom Essery, Timex & David Cipoletta, Pison

Thomas Essery

CTO, VP R&D Timex

David Cipoletta

Chief Technology Office Pison

Tom Essery, Chief Technology Officer at Timex, and David Cipoletta, Co-Founder of Pison, join theCUBE at MWC25 Barcelona to discuss groundbreaking advancements in wearable technology. The conversation, led by Savannah Peterson, delves into Pison's innovative sensors aimed at early detection and prevention of neuromuscular diseases such as ALS and Parkinson's. Leveraging insights from their Timex partnership, they explore how this technology provides crucial health and wellness data beyond traditional cardiovascular metrics.

This session highlights se... Read more

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What kind of sensor did Python create to help people with neuromuscular diseases, especially ALS? add

What are some potential future applications of gesture control technology in various industries, such as AR/VR, home appliances, and healthcare? add

What is the scientific basis and approach behind using the GSR sensor in conjunction with other metrics to measure anxiety and cognitive load in performance studies? add

What factors led to the decision to focus on wrist-worn devices for collecting data? add

What are the plans for democratizing sensor technology in wearables and making it a new standard across all OEMs? add

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Tom Essery, Timex & David Cipoletta, Pison

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Savannah Peterson

>> Good evening hardware fans and welcome back to Barcelona, Spain. We are here at the conclusion of day three of our four days of live coverage. My name's Savannah Peterson and I am particularly and personally very thrilled for this next conversation because I have two of the masterminds in wearables. If you know me at all, you know I've been a wearable girl for a very long time. This is going to be a fantastic conversation that I honestly have been dying to have and made sure that I curated. Tom and David, thank you so much for taking the time out of a busy Mobile World Congress to come hang out with me.

Thomas Essery

>> Thank you. Very happy to be here.

Savannah Peterson

>> It feels like a really unique moment where we're seeing true innovation in wearables again. We started tracking ourselves, quantified self. Happen, Tom, you and I have been talking about this for years. Python's technology is absolutely revolutionary. When Tom was telling me about you at CES, I was totally geeking out. So in case the audience isn't familiar, and since you are breaking through in the new innovation space right now, give us a little bit of the background on Python, the technology and where you're going.

David Cipoletta

>> Perfect. I think really good to have Tom as a supporter of us, and thank you so much for having me here. As Python, we started in 2016 really looking to help people with neuromuscular diseases, especially for ALS. Think my co-founder and myself, our personally experience friends going through this and family going through this, and we really want to see how we can change the world through this. And what we have done is essentially created a new sensor and embedded that into all the smartwatches. That sensor is looking at neuromuscular signals that hasn't been happening in the wearable today. What we have seen in the wearables are all cardiovascular sensors.

Savannah Peterson

>> Exactly.

David Cipoletta

>> That's one aspect of human body, but the neuromuscular signal just opens another whole dimension and it's really good to have Timex to be a huge sponsor of us with this.

Savannah Peterson

>> Give me some examples of the types of things you're able to ascertain by putting these new sensors onto the wrist.

David Cipoletta

>> Very good question. I think we look at three stages in term of the technology, like what we can do today and what we can do, let say tomorrow and then also way down in the future. The first thing we have seen the markets going is like everybody wants to do cool things for tech, early adopters as a gesture. So the first thing we're doing with a lot of OEMs is doing gesture control. How do we gesture control AR VR? That's one aspect and home appliance and so on. And then the other aspect is it's a health and wellness, especially focused on wellness. We see today everybody beginning to realize how important sleep is, but sleep is not just measured with heart rates. It's measured your neuromuscular signals. So how do we look at REM and deep sleep in different lenses than compared to PSG? So we have a full solution for that. And then lastly, we see where wearables go in the future is healthcare. With neuromuscular diseases, it is like by the time you go to the doctor's already too late. When you lose few neurons, you're not going to feel it. And when you lose many of them, you go to the doctor, at that point it's too late. So how do we utilize wearables today? Capture the data early and prevent neuromuscular diseases from happening, things like ALS, Parkinson, MS and so on.

Savannah Peterson

>> As someone with a big family history with Parkinson's, you just hit that sweet little spot in my heart. So many things we can learn and prevent or at least head off on the path earlier if we have that awareness. I think this is really going to drive a lot of change. Tom, as CTO of Timex, you're constantly looking for the next things in innovation, particularly on the wrist. You and I have covered a breadth of technologies over our decade of friendship. When did you find out about Python and how did you feel when you heard about this technology the first time?

Thomas Essery

>> So we were introduced at CES in the 2023 by ST when we went for an ST Micro lunch and set of demos and we sat down with David, within 10 seconds we got it and it was like, why isn't any analyst jumped on this? And so it was one of those things that we saw this opportunity to have a really differentiated product. Like I said, as David said, there's a lot of wearables that are just doing all the same kinds of things that we are looking for a way to jump back into the space in a way that is different.

Savannah Peterson

>> And meaningful.

Thomas Essery

>> And meaningful. Exactly.

Savannah Peterson

>> It's extremely meaningful. It's not just about am I running faster or what was my HRV? You and I have been wearing for years, but it's much more about how can I make meaningful impact in people's lives? And I love that I hear that in your founder's story.

Thomas Essery

>> What I loved about them as well is they're so embedded in science. Everything's about the science. So anytime you put a claim on a box, you need to have a proof that it's being done. They have world-class CSO, chief scientific officer, chief medical Officer. They're running real scientific studies and we're taking that data and turning it into meaningful insights. And so that's what I love about it. And they're not just putting marketing stuff out there. This is the real solution for a lot of different verticals. And the other thing was really cool that there's just so many different... Every day we're finding new applications for this technology, and so that provides so many new verticals for Timex to get into that we would not have considered before, whether there's B2C or B2B, there's a ton of opportunities here for us. And the choice we're having to make is which one to do first.

Savannah Peterson

>> How are you making that choice?

Thomas Essery

>> Well, the first one is really there's a baseball application that's really been driven by Python who saw there's a huge opportunity for baseball training. I'll let David talk a little bit more about it, but-

David Cipoletta

>> Please.

Thomas Essery

>> That's the first really we're all commercial application.

Savannah Peterson

>> That's the first at-bat, if you will.

Thomas Essery

>> There we go. That's cool. Keep that one up for you.

Savannah Peterson

>> You sure did.

David Cipoletta

>> I think baseball is a perfect example of where sports meets a mental performance. You constantly have to make quick decisions and a ball coming at you like 90 miles per hour, what do I do? Do I swing? Do I not swing? What type of ball it is, right? Athletes today train on a physical level. We have wearables that track physical level trainings. With this neuromuscular signal we're unlocking this cognitive piece that had been happening in sports. And baseball is one of those sports where analytics matter so much. And when we show this to baseball coaches, they're like, "This is like Moneyball 2.0."

Savannah Peterson

>> That is literally one of the first things I thought about, of course.

David Cipoletta

>> We can do predictive analytics, knowing a person's mental performance, correlating to on-field performance, the ability then ability to work with cultures to train them on crucial moments. For example, right now I'm a big Tom Brady fan, so it's like you have this clutching like Michael Jordan. How do you measure someone who's in critical moments can do the craziest thing, they're still stay calm, ice-cold. These are the things we're beginning to mind out and able to realize, hey, we can actually put the objective metric on this. So I would say baseball and any type of sport is a very, very big good beachhead market for us.

Savannah Peterson

>> I can definitely see that. I can't let you mention Tom Brady and wearables and not ask you what you thought of the watch he wore at the Super Bowl.

David Cipoletta

>> Or the one who gave he gave-

Savannah Peterson

>> No comment. Well, you can be a fan of him, but not necessarily his wearables. He's going to have to have a Python. And earlier in the week we had the Sevilla Football Club on here. We had the president of the Sevilla football club talking about their partnership with IBM and AI in sports, and they're using it for recruiting. In my mind, same wheels turning about Moneyball and that sort of game. But it's crazy how much a tiny micro-adjustment can make an incredibly impactful difference, both in performance as well as in wellness. You have the Python on right now, do you mind?

David Cipoletta

>> Oh, correct. There we go.

Savannah Peterson

>> Yeah, yeah. Do you guys mind just holding them up a little bit so the guys on the cam can see?

David Cipoletta

>> Perfect.

Savannah Peterson

>> So this form factor is a form factor that you're definitely used to seeing. This isn't anything too big, too clunky, too weird, too whatever. You showed me a test when we were at dinner earlier this week for reflexes, which is obviously a big part of baseball. So equivalently, what you do is you react to the light that's on there. I can imagine there's a lot of other instances in which that would be really applicable. I mean, shoot, an air traffic controller needs to have reflexes, a surgeon needs to have a steady hand. Can you give me some examples of where you think it will expand from this particular application?

David Cipoletta

>> Well, Tom uses it to test how much alcohol he drinks. He is like, Hey, look, am I 30% below baseline or 40% below?

Savannah Peterson

>> Tom?

Thomas Essery

>> Maybe when my kids -

David Cipoletta

>> Sorry, hold on.

Savannah Peterson

>> How much water do you drink. That's what you meant, how much water do you drink.

Thomas Essery

>> Doesn't drink for . He's a Canadian that doesn't drink. Wink, wink.

David Cipoletta

>> No, but I think the enterprise safety piece is a whole part. The fatigue management, there are certain occupations you need to be ready and people trust you in those jobs. You're a pilot, you're a truck driver, you're affecting the society around you. So the ability for truck drivers able to measure this before they go, and then employer look at this, "Oh, I feel safe having you on the road." So that whole application can really enhance the safety of the society.

Thomas Essery

>> And we're looking at that for pilots or truck drivers. There are lots of different places around there. I think also you guys sponsor a NASCAR driver that uses it to figure out is he in the sone?

Savannah Peterson

>> That makes a lot of sense.

Thomas Essery

>> And so you do the test ahead of time. You say, "Am I in the zone right now or I'm not?" Now he knows what he needs to do in order to get into the zone, get in that car, and now you're at your peak reaction time.

David Cipoletta

>> Especially with this new technology. I think Anthony Alfredo, our driver, phenomenal guy, and he's opening new way to use our devices, for example, we use it to do tests. We're like, "Hey, we just do tests." He's using it for training. He's like, "Hey, I know how to get myself into the zone by doing a test." So before he takes his qualifying lap, he's doing this test to get himself focused and he's actually able to really perform well in the qualified races.

Savannah Peterson

>> Yeah. And he's able to confirm the confidence he's feeling on the starting line by knowing that he is in the zone. Beyond just performance, so one of the things that I am moved by about the product is there's ways to look at cognitive load at anxiety at a lot of other X factors that don't necessarily show up in traditional cardiometrics. Sure, my heart rate might be a little off or something different, but that's not necessarily telling you the whole story. Tell me a little bit about the scientific studies that went into this 'cause I know how stringent Tom is when it comes to making sure things are real and not just a little missed.

David Cipoletta

>> Yeah, I think first I would say the Python philosophy is everything we do has to have a first principle. We're not just a software company. We're just a software company we just be taking somebody else's sensor and then try to do an AI model and then make the sense out of it. We believe in the first principle why it happened, what's the thesis behind it? And we also have great partner like IST to help us with hardware and then really get to every part of the stack to be able to get best data, to have the best people build the algorithm behind it. Anxiety is a perfect piece. We are not out there looking to replace any of the sensors. Heart rate is a big significant part of anxiety, things like that. So for us, we always look at the problems like, hey, look, how do we have accurate measurement? And then the go-to measurement is GSR, which is called venous skin response. You look at when you get nervous, your skin change, you get more sweaty and so on. And then we look at, but everybody are just different, so how do we correlate, how do we build a baseline around it? So this Timex device also have a GSR with it. We're just using our sensor to confirm baseline for them. For example, we are measuring PVT at the two extremes. When we do tests with Montana State on these studies, it's like you're doing a very complex math problem. All of a sudden they're playing siren next to you making having this environmental anxiety. And then we look at these changes and what we found out is with our sensor, we can actually determine the baseline when somebody actually calm versus when they're in this stressful situation. So complementing that with the heart rate, everything, we have a sensor fusion approach for this problem.

Thomas Essery

>> And what I like about it it simplifies it. I've got watches that show me stress and I really don't know what that means, but now saying, am I under-simulated, I'm in the right zone or am I at the point where I've got cognitive overload and I am not able to think anymore? And they're able to empirically measure where that barrier is. And at some point you say, "All right, I got to step away 'cause I'm not being effective at whatever I'm doing right now because I'm in this overload state."

Savannah Peterson

>> Right, depreciating returns, for sure.

Thomas Essery

>> Exactly. So this is what we love about it.

Savannah Peterson

>> And I think that's really important too because we need as many dimensions on this axis as we can to really understand. Plus you're noting yourself, you're able to prepare days in advance so that you find yourself in peak performance mode and be training up with that. What do you think is going to be the, I know we've got baseball and sports going on, what do you think is going to be the enterprise application of this that might get picked up the largest?

David Cipoletta

>> Yeah. I would say there's a scary part to this and there's also I would think is a fun part. For example, I had my whole company doing these reaction time tests and what we basically finding out efficiency, when is everybody's peak performance is, circling the rhythm, and as a company, we're mostly engineering scientists. I found out our peak performance is like 4:00 PM in the afternoon and then the worst time performance like 9:00 AM in the morning. So it was like as executive in the company we're like, "We should be shifting our work times." How do we maximize efficiency? Things like that. A good way is as a knowledge worker, I want to know when's the best time I actually handle the hardest problems. So enterprise, how do you increase efficiency. This is a culture, at least in the US, we care about a lot more. Everything other part of the world where like 996 we want to be much more efficient. So for enterprise solution with your performance, it's another dimension to allow enterprise to be much, much capable.

Savannah Peterson

>> A much more rich understanding of your people.

Thomas Essery

>> Exactly.

Savannah Peterson

>> And maybe the negative impacts of certain things that happen or when they happen or how they happen.

Thomas Essery

>> True. One of the things that, I mean, another application is concussion. So my kids all play college hockey, and at the beginning, all college students do this. At the beginning of the season, they do a test to judge your reaction time, and then after a head trauma event, they'll go back in the lab and run that test the next day and see if there's any degradation. Now you can be doing this on the sideline in real time. You're not having to wait to go in the nub. Plus it's a lot more deterministic when they're doing that computer, you have to move your hand and there's a lot of variability now. When I'm making the test now, lifelines goes off, the signal comes down my arm, it's detecting the signal even before my hand moves. So it's very deterministic, very accurate. It gives us a much better opportunity to be able to keep kids' brains healthy.

Savannah Peterson

>> Yeah, exactly. Well, and it offers a much more complete picture that to your point of our earlier conversation, can provide that early detection, or at least that, "Huh, something's a little bit off right now. I wonder what's going on?" Is the wrist the best location for this or the only location for this technology? Or where do we go from here?

David Cipoletta

>> Yeah, I think one of the thing, my co-founder, Dexter really had this long-term vision looking into this. A lot of time, I think we saw the problem either quality of data or quantity of data. For example, when PBG first came out, when we go to the hospital, they're not putting a PBG on your wrist, they're put it on your fingers. But Fitbit, all these comments decide to do their wrist just to get most amount of data. To us, we believe the same thing. Here, it's a very socially acceptable form factor. Obviously the best place to get a lot of your mental data is actually up here but-

Savannah Peterson

>> I was just going to say on your noggin. You don't want to do the headband that everyone tried to do there for a few years, which is-

Thomas Essery

>> There's a few of those out there.

Savannah Peterson

>> Really sold off the shelves.

David Cipoletta

>> Yeah, I think just as a societies, we're not quite there yet.

Savannah Peterson

>> We're not quite cyborgs yet.

David Cipoletta

>> But at least here, it's like everybody accept the form factor. I'm a big watch guy myself as we partner with Timex. Here it is both an accessory and also giving you that new ability to look at new insights for yourself.

Thomas Essery

>> Absolutely.

Savannah Peterson

>> Yeah, it absolutely is. Everyone at this table is a big wearable and watch person.

Thomas Essery

>> Exactly.

Savannah Peterson

>> I got my Timex on right now.

David Cipoletta

>> Good idea, yes, yes.

Thomas Essery

>> Oh, there we go.

Savannah Peterson

>> It's my Pac-Man Timex. So this is a-

Thomas Essery

>> And I can attest that she's always wearing Timex watch. Every time I see you, you've got a Timex. So yes.

Savannah Peterson

>> You know how loyal I.

Thomas Essery

>> Yes you are. 170 years Timex. Shout out to Timex 70 years.

Savannah Peterson

>> Yeah, I mean actually while we're there, shout out to the whole Timex team who we know to be us and the whole squad. Everyone's -

Thomas Essery

>> Oh, absolutely.

Savannah Peterson

>> Some cool stuff. I think-

Thomas Essery

>> Sorry, just to get in there, this is one of the few technology plays where I came back really excited, explained it to the team, and everybody was on board instantly. And we've been going full speed ahead, full engagement for everybody within Timex. So we're really super excited about this opportunity.

Savannah Peterson

>> And just building on that two things. One, I'm not surprised because you told me, and I think I got it in about 14 seconds as well, and thought, oh my goodness, this is going to change things. And now I can't wait to look at this data on myself and understand when I'm a little strung out on the news desk or whatever it might be, depending on my circumstance. I don't think that most people realize how innovative Timex is and how many different partnerships that you have like this, what's the breadth of your sourcing for curating this new technology to bring into the company?

Thomas Essery

>> That's a good question. That's why I come to these shows to go out and go, and tomorrow I'm going to go up the hall eight because there's probably 500 little startups up there, and I've already found two that we're really interesting. So it's just fun to go out and look for innovative new solutions and look at the applicability to the wearable space and to what we're trying to do. And there's a ton of really cool companies out there. So that's where going to CES and walking around, coming to shows like this gives is an opportunity to find those hidden gems.

Savannah Peterson

>> It really is. And you're a good detective with it. I've seen you pull out some pretty great ones, but I have to say, no offense to your other darlings, I think this is the most excited I've ever seen you.

Thomas Essery

>> Oh, absolutely.

Savannah Peterson

>> For technology, at least during the duration of our decade-long friendship. So where are you all? Are you shipping? Where are you in the development process? How do people get their hands on this technology?

David Cipoletta

>> Yeah, so I think on our website, we're open for early access right now, but the launch day is in April. Very excited to do this with Timex. And then we have a lot of exciting partners in our baseball community. Shout out to PBR. They just done a promo video yesterday. We want to make sure we can help the young athletes in the US to be better trained mentally as well, right?

Thomas Essery

>> Absolutely.

Savannah Peterson

>> Better trained mentally. And to your earlier point about concussions, safer. Training in a way that is long-term beneficial while still optimizing performance.

Thomas Essery

>> Correct.

Savannah Peterson

>> Which can be a really challenging thing. Gentlemen, this has been an absolutely fantastic interview. I have one final question for you both. When we are... Actually, no, I'm going to take that back. I have two final questions for you both 'cause I just got one that jumped in front of that line. For you each personally, because I can tell how passionate you are about wearables, what do you hope that Python technology does for your family or for your personal life? So stepping out of the business arena just for a second, what do you hope this technology can help solve or reveal or help within your own personal family or your life outside of the office?

David Cipoletta

>> Yeah.

Savannah Peterson

>> We'll let David go first. You can do the level -

David Cipoletta

>> I have a . No, just kidding.

Thomas Essery

>> I worked 20-

David Cipoletta

>> As someone I think experiencing and seeing friends going through tough diseases, things like that and really as an engineer, as a technologist, how do we make, I'm not a doctor by background, but how do I build a team and able to use the skills that I have to make sure this doesn't ever happen again? I can only do the best I can and say, "Hey, work with the industry leaders, having the best sensor, having Timex to be a strong partner and putting this in the consumer off the shelf products." And then with more data, with more research and looking at this, we should be stopping people from getting any neurological diseases.

Savannah Peterson

>> So the end of neurological disease. Great answer. Great answer. All right. Tom, top that?

Thomas Essery

>> I mean what he said. Yeah. No, just overall, maybe not so much my personal situation, but I came into this industry not wanting just to create cool stuff. It's about helping people. And I want to go out knowing that in my career, I've done something that has made a meaningful change for somebody at some point. And so this is why it's so exciting to us 'cause I just see so many cool applications here that will hopefully make people's lives better

Savannah Peterson

>> And continue to iterate and evolve. I mean, you could have bought it for baseball and then you end up discovering something else.

Thomas Essery

>> Oh, there's so many applications.

Savannah Peterson

>> This is all interwoven rather than siloed and combining it with the other already proven sensors and tools, it's pretty compelling. Okay. Actually last question for you, I promise. Sorry, that was a little bit of a head fake because it seems like there's been a lot that's happened in terms of both your partnership as well as the innovation of the product line over the last year. You've only known, well, it's only been a year and change that you've been working together. When we're at Mobile World Congress or CES next year, what do you hope to be able to say then that you can't yet say today?

David Cipoletta

>> We definitely have a lot of plan in motion, right? Obviously Timex, you can talk about your product plan, but from a Python perspective, we want to democratize in the sensor through all the OEMs. So this should be the new standard in all wearables in addition to all the sensors that we have today. In the past, I think as most people look at hardware, especially wearable, they look at the margin. They're like I'm adding a sensor but price doesn't change. But now we have a full solution, both from the hardware and the supply chain perspective, we are able to get there. So next year know MWC and CES. I think we're going to see a lot more wearables today, have our capabilities and getting to, I would say, try to capture the entire market.

Savannah Peterson

>> I can't wait to walk the floor with Tom and you and you can point out all the little things that have been influenced because I think that's great. You get to sprinkle your magic fairy dust of this technology throughout the solutions market. Tom, what about you?

Thomas Essery

>> So obviously we're excited to be, we know there's going to be other OEMs coming along, and we're just happy that we recognize it early and we're the first. And so we are building out our roadmap of watches and segments that we're going to go after. So I'm hoping next year we'll be able to show a veritable plethora of devices that have the Python technology inside for different types of applications. And so that's kind of what I'm hoping for by next year.

Savannah Peterson

>> Awesome. Well, I look forward to discussing all of those next time we're in the same place. Maybe even getting some of those customers on or some users on and getting to have the conversations about what that's been like. David and Tom, thank you so much for taking the time today.

Thomas Essery

>> Thank you Savannah, very much. Huge pleasure.

David Cipoletta

>> Thank you so much.

Savannah Peterson

>> And I just got to say, it is such a joy to be here as your friend, but also as a collaborator and to really see the type of success and change and impact that you're driving, Tom. So gold Star from Savvy today.

Thomas Essery

>> Thank you. All right, thank you.

Savannah Peterson

>> I hope you all enjoyed this as much as we've enjoyed it being up there. We're here in Barcelona, Spain, end of day three at Mobile World Congress. My name's Savannah Peterson. You're watching theCUBE, the leading source for enterprise tech news.