Celonis Celosphere 2025 | Sir Simon Rattle, Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks

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Sir Simon Rattle

Chief Conductor

Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks

play_circle_outline Welcoming Sir Simon Rattle, chief conductor, to discuss music and conducting.

play_circle_outline The unique mental process of a conductor managing a large orchestra.

play_circle_outline Integrating Individual Musicians' Creativity: The Role of Conductors and the Impact of Technology and AI in Music

play_circle_outline The significance of preparing both mentally and physically before performances.

play_circle_outline Embracing Brahms' Wisdom: Balancing Music Practice, Reading, and Life Experiences for Aspiring Musicians

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Sir Simon Rattle, Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks

Sir Simon Rattle

Chief Conductor Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks

In this Celosphere 2025 interview, Sir Simon Rattle, chief conductor at the Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks, joins theCUBE’s Rob Strechay and Savannah Peterson in Munich to unpack the craft of conducting: non-verbal leadership, anticipating the music (“breathing in” so the orchestra can “breathe out”), and cultivating creativity across 100 highly trained players. Rattle shares formative moments, from an early “Damascus” revelation in Liverpool to why respect, empathy and reading the room matter more than authority, offering practical takeaways fo... Read more

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What was the introduction and context for the first conductor at the show? add

What is the experience and thought process of a conductor while leading an orchestra? add

What strategies can be employed to effectively harness and encourage the creativity of highly skilled and knowledgeable individuals in a collaborative environment? add

What are the challenges musicians face in reconciling their artistic identity with their performances? add

What advice would you give to someone aspiring to be a musician or conductor? add

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Savannah Peterson

>> Good evening, Celoknots, and welcome back to the Celosphere. We're here in Munich, Germany. My name's Savannah Peterson, bringing you all the fantastic stories from the show floor in our two days of live coverage with Rob Strechay. Rob, this is about to be a first for me, maybe for you, too?

Rob Strechay

>> Definitely a first. Definitely up here, a first, and I'm excited about it. Having a connection back to university when I was at university with music, and classical music, as well as just understanding this. I'm extremely excited for this segment.

Savannah Peterson

>> Yeah, no, this is going to be fantastic. Without further ado, welcome our first conductor to the show, Sir Simon Rattle. Thank you so much for being here, chief conductor. We appreciate you taking time away from the music to give us some of your infinite wisdom.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Okay, so now I'm worried.

Rob Strechay

>> We're setting the bar. ...setting the bar.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Most of us become musicians, so we don't have to talk, but I'm just warning you.

Rob Strechay

>> That's fine. I think I look at it, and go, I am so interested in how just the thought process, and shaping, because talking about process here. And I think getting all of the different musicians, and the instruments to all come together has to be a significant process that you go through, and you must have ideas of how you make that work.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Well, the amount of different synapses firing when you stand in front of an orchestra. I mean, that must be fairly extraordinary, because you are dealing with so many things at once. And of course, I mean, there's a first strange thing about being a conductor is because we don't make the sound, but we have to know what the sound is before. So, in a way, we are breathing in, but it's the orchestra who breathes out. So, we are doing everything ahead of time. And then when it lands, you're thinking, "Oh, now where's that going? Oh, we lost that one. Where are we going?" So, always you're thinking ahead, and having to compare it with what you had in your mind from what the sound actually is. And if you only go with what's in your head, there'll be no way because you are reacting to what everybody else is doing. It's a strange profession. I mean, I would say, look, I come from Liverpool, so I'm a football fan. I mean, it's like being a football manager like Jürgen Klopp in Liverpool, but with arm motion. So, of course they are playing, and he is managing, they are playing, I am conducting, but without them I'm nothing. I'm a fake profession. So, you have to have a real respect for the people you're working with.

Savannah Peterson

>> And a real awareness of all of their unique traits, and capabilities, and bringing that harmony together. I mean, as you're describing this, I'm thinking of it like the stars in a sky almost. You almost have to see all the constellations when you're up there.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> No, but this is true. But it's amazing what you notice, also what you see when you stand in front of all those people. But a lot of it is also non-verbal communication, obviously. I mean, we are doing the thing with arm motions, but it's a matter of what you get back. And when it works, it's like nothing else. And that's very hard to describe because there can be a kind of group emotion in the room, which really takes you forward, and everybody can feel that. It can also be a disaster, and you don't always know why. So, it is kind of mysterious profession.

Savannah Peterson

>> Which is a living organism to a degree.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Yeah, well-

Savannah Peterson

>> It is literally, I guess.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> It really is.

Rob Strechay

>> And you've seen that even with Liverpool. I mean, not in the last decade, they've had a good decade, but when you start to look at what goes on in all of these different things, in fact, here at Celosphere, we're watching people who are looking at these processes, and we were talking about juveniles, repeat offenders, and things like that. And looking at that process, and breaking it down, and going, "Okay, why is this failing? Why are we failing that person, and not getting them rehabilitated? Or why are people who go through this coming?" How do you look at it, and think, "Okay, I know there's brilliance here in these people." You have your different chairs, and things of that nature, but you look at it, you're the one who knows how it all comes together. You're like you said, with the arm motions. How do you bring the brilliance out in all of those people as part of that process?

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Well, I mean, I'm in a particularly strange profession because there's a hundred people there who are unbelievably highly trained, extremely knowledgeable, big temperaments, all of their, and this is unusual. I mean, there aren't, in orchestras, particularly in great orchestras, there are no worker ants. These are all incredibly creative people. One of the things I learned very early on is you better get all their input. It's no you saying, "Oh, this is what I want because this is only one person's vision." And of course you guide it in that way, but it's quite easy to crush that creativity. And I can tell you, you don't want to face an angry orchestra, and you can feel it. I mean, I didn't always conduct very well, but I knew from a teenager I was quite good at reading the atmosphere in a room, and I would know, "Okay, move on now." This is a really important thing, because you want to keep them with you, because without them, what can I do?

Savannah Peterson

>> There goes the harmony. Yeah.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> I remember going as a kid to a rehearsal of a rather famous Welsh conductor, and at a certain point, the orchestra just went, and I met my teacher, percussion teacher behind stage. I said, "Oh, that was an early break." He said, "It wasn't a break. We all walked out. He was just so unpleasant. We went."

Rob Strechay

>> Wow.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> And it was interesting because then I was only, what, 12, or 13, but I thought, wow, of course, without them, he's nothing. He can go literally, he can breathe in all he likes, but he can't breathe out.

Savannah Peterson

>> I love that breath analogy. It's really beautiful. I'm curious, okay, you're 12, or 13, you have this moment. Is this when you decide you want to be a conductor yourself? Tell me a little bit about that journey for you.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> I grew up as a drummer. I just always felt that rhythm. Rhythm was it. I mean, rhythm was the thing is probably where we started from our lizard brain onwards was rhythm. I loved being an orchestras, and I loved sitting at a set of timpani, you are over it, you see it, you watch it. And then I realized that somebody else was even more in the middle of this. There was one concert in Liverpool, a performance of Marla's Second Symphony, and this was St. Paul on the road to Damascus for me. Because I thought, "I want to be in the middle of this." This feels like if not the power source of the whole thing, the adapter plug, the power of the music was going through this person to the musicians, to the audience that this person was enabling that to happen. And that moment I can remember, it's like that film Memento, it's still tattooed on me, Marla Second, never forget. I can remember where I sat in the hall from there, and then I realized this was what I wanted to do. And it's hard to believe that now, whatever it is, 60 odd years later, here I am doing it.

Rob Strechay

>> Yeah. I mean, I look at it, and again, like you said, I was pleasant enough that I knew some people who played in Boston, and some of the symphonies there, and still do it as we were talking about where they've gone out, and they're no longer doing that. They've... In other careers, and things of that nature, but they still play. And I think one of the things that you hit upon is how to keep people involved, and happy. And that happens in technology as well with everybody looking at it, and going, "Hey, AI, is the AI having human in the loop", for instance, and people being involved, and brought along. Do you see that as how technology, and AI is even bleeding into your world, or how is that?

Sir Simon Rattle

>> It's quite interesting, because I mean, maybe I'm very naive, but I do think that our part of this profession, the way we do it, is one of the things that will be most difficult for AI to replicate. On the other hand, but even with my I mean, I know nothing about it, but what we all thought 10 years ago as a possibility now seems so incredibly primitive. I don't know whether I'm ready for AI to really find out what is the source of our creativity. And is it thinking?

Rob Strechay

>> Right.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Because I mean, in some ways it is, as we do, it's comparing all these possibilities against each other, which is what I do when I conduct. You can see it's comparing all these things, and coming up with an answer. And sometimes we're all thrilled when it comes up with something that is kind of just so out of possibility, you think, "Oh, thank God it's not taking over." But I can quite imagine in 10, or 20 years what it will be, and how will we use it? Or how will it use us?

Savannah Peterson

>> Seriously. I am with you on the creativity front with AI. I think there's aspects of our lives that will make more efficient. I think when it comes to pure art, it's a different type of creation.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> I hope so.

Savannah Peterson

>> Yeah. I would say actually that's a good way to put it.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> I hope we'll be able to tell the difference.

Savannah Peterson

>> Yes.

Rob Strechay

>> I agree.

Savannah Peterson

>> Yes. Thankfully, we at least still can, but I know exactly what you mean. So, we're here.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> I mean, my God, is it an incredible possibility? I mean, I just simply hope we haven't taken on more than we can cope with.

Rob Strechay

>> Agreed.

Savannah Peterson

>> Well, and I wonder if the robot orchestra, or the AI-powered orchestra, just in this analogy, would have the same emotional impact of the human bit. And I don't think it does. I mean, at least, and maybe we're old school, to your point.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> But I don't think most people realize when they go to a film, when this has been played on a synthesizer, and when it's an orchestra. I mean, I hear it immediately, and I get furious, but I wonder how many people do, but also how you can measure the difference between a live person doing this, and a machine reproducing it.

Rob Strechay

>> So, let's keep going down this path of the leadership, and aspect that you were talking about earlier. And how has conducting, because you talked about not losing the orchestra. How has that changed your approach, or your process with the different people? Because you're probably having to integrate people in, you're conducting at different orchestras, you're learning about them. How does that really change your process for going up, being involved?

Sir Simon Rattle

>> But look, I mean, I think there has been a huge generational change in attitude, even in my experience. Because I can still remember some of the old real autocratic conductors, and that was scary. Although, I have a couple of greatly admired, and greatly admired by me colleagues who I just stopped going into rehearsals, because it just felt I didn't want to see that much blood on the floor, or see that psychological damage happen.

Savannah Peterson

>> Especially as someone who's clearly very high EQ, I'm not surprised that you would feel that in a way that was ouchy.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Well, I don't like seeing people treated like that, but this was a way. I mean, when you think of, well, look, you think of how Hitchcock treated his actresses, but I mean, there was a lot of that in the world of conducting. It's now less acceptable, I mean, thank God. There has been a change. And of course, sometimes the changes have gone quite far in the opposite direction. But in a way, I think it's for the good, because I think music is meant to bring joy into people's lives. It's not meant to be something you do while you spit your teeth out at the same time, but suddenly that way of how you motivate people. And I can hear when an orchestra has been trained through fear, it sounds different. And I know even as a kid, I went for the people who, well, what the Germans call menschlich. I could hear the difference.

Savannah Peterson

>> So, let's stay there for a second. What's your process like when you are getting ready to start working with an orchestra, or you're walking into that room before that performance? What are you thinking about? How are you communicating with them?

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Good question. It depends whether you mean performing, or rehearsing.

Savannah Peterson

>> Well, tell us both. Now, I'm curious.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Well, I mean, I think many musicians have gone through the Jekyll, and Hyde thing. I mean, certainly in my twenties, I could remember listening to myself performing, and thinking, "Whoever this person is, I'm not sure whether I like this." Certainly didn't feel like the Dr. Jekyll I thought I was. But somehow maybe as time goes on, you learn a way to bring that more together. But there is no doubt that rehearsing this work that goes in, and sometimes it's like dental work. I mean, you really need to do your dental hygiene as a conductor. Okay, is it together? Is it in tune? Are we organized? But if you do that in the concert, then it's like saying, "I have this fantastic airplane that I have bolted to the runway, and it will never take off." The whole point of that is that you find a way where it takes off, and then you don't always know what the journey will be. But any of us will tell you that the concert thing is different. We all have different rituals, we all have things we need that we've all found works, and everybody has different ways of doing that.

Savannah Peterson

>> Do you have anything quirky that you do? Any little thing that's...?

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Oh, I think nothing that I should say in public. I've got just a very basic thing. It really helps that I learn to be good at sleeping for half an hour, or an hour on an afternoon of just going, "Okay, go." Then, it seems like a lot of people in these positions, a lot of politicians found to say, look, Kennedy, Margaret Thatcher, all kinds of people who could nap, and make it useful. I mean, that helps, but

Savannah Peterson

>> The world needs more naps, folks.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> That's the principle thing. I can tell you.

Rob Strechay

>> We can agree with you as people who sleep on airplanes quite often. So, napping is .

Savannah Peterson

>> I almost took a nap under this desk earlier today because of our night last night. Okay. So, I've got-

Sir Simon Rattle

>> I'm stunned at people who can't sleep on airplanes.

Rob Strechay

>> I am too.

Savannah Peterson

>> Me too, I'll be honest.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> And my time is actually when it's going along the runway.

Savannah Peterson

>> Oh, yeah.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Normally at that point, unconscious, or later back...

Rob Strechay

>> Yeah, same.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> But it must be so we, no, we are all traveling, although musicians less than we did since COVID. But this thing that immediately, oh, we are moving. Go. Take this chance.

Savannah Peterson

>> Love that.

Rob Strechay

>> Love it.

Savannah Peterson

>> All right, last question for you. This has been fascinating, and we could talk all night. What's your advice to an aspiring musician, or aspiring conductor who is feeling impassioned having just watched this interview?

Sir Simon Rattle

>> If you really want to be a musician, or a conductor, I would just say be as curious as hell about everything. And not just about music. Please, not just about music, because it's supposed to be about something. The notes on the page are what they are. Fantastic. But read everything. Go, and see every film. Do anything. Help people. Live. Give yourself... Brahms said this wonderful thing to a group of students, and I got yelled at by a couple of professors in San Francisco for saying this to the orchestra, but Brahms' advice was, "Can I tell you all you wonderful musicians, practice one hour less every day, but read one more good book." And I thought-

Rob Strechay

>> Love it....

Sir Simon Rattle

>> "That's a smart man."

Rob Strechay

>> Yeah.

Savannah Peterson

>> Oh, the music tells a story. I think that's absolutely brilliant.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Well, it's about something, otherwise it has no reason to live. Then we could do it with AI, because it could reproduce whatever that is perfectly. But what it's about, that's something else.

Savannah Peterson

>> Oof, you just gave me the feels. What a beautiful note. Sir Simon Rattle, thank you so much for taking the time.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Thank you. Thank you for making it so easy.

Rob Strechay

>> And thank you.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Good luck for the rest of this extraordinary, extraordinary experience.

Rob Strechay

>> Thank you.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Okay.

Savannah Peterson

>> Yeah, thank you. And thank you, Rob. What a day.

Rob Strechay

>> This has been awesome.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Have you finished?

Rob Strechay

>> Yeah, this...

Sir Simon Rattle

>> That was it?

Savannah Peterson

>> This is about to...

Rob Strechay

>> She's...

Savannah Peterson

>> I'm going to go ahead, and let our audience go back to their evening.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> Get a good glass of wine right now.

Savannah Peterson

>> Yes. And we're also going to do a good glass of wine.

Sir Simon Rattle

>> And don't stand up from the chair.

Rob Strechay

>> Yes, exactly.

Savannah Peterson

>> Yes. All right, folks, stay tuned for day two of our coverage here from Celosphere in Munich, Germany. Coming to you all day tomorrow. Power packed 16 segments. It's going to be a blast, but this might be the most unique segment of the show. Thanks for joining us. My name's Savannah Peterson. You're watching TheCUBE, the leading source for enterprise tech news.