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Robert Skinner

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Skinner’s Strategies

From shadow IT to singular truth: Axonius reshapes cybersecurity visibility

Fragmentation isn’t just a technical issue in cybersecurity — it’s an existential one. Shadow IT, software-as-a-service sprawl and disconnected tools leave teams squinting at their environments through fractured lenses, with no clear cybersecurity visibility into what’s safe or exposed.Axonius’ Dean Sysman talks with theCUBE during Axonius Adapt25.“That’s led to dozens of different tools that organizations need to use, and each one only sees a part of the picture, a part of the one piece of that puzzle of the organization,” said Dean Sysman (pictured), co-founder and chief executive offer of Axonius Inc

play_circle_outline Cybersecurity complexity and importance of people in addition to technology

play_circle_outline Experience of Bob Skinner in military and leadership

play_circle_outline Prioritization based on mission understanding and leveraging technology for solving problems

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Robert Skinner, Skinner’s Strategies

Robert Skinner

CEO Skinner’s Strategies

Exploring leadership and technology integration in cybersecurity, this video features Robert Skinner, an operational technologist and consultant at Skinner's Strategies, in conversation with theCUBE's Rebecca Knight and Rob Strechay at Axonius Adapt 2025. Skinner draws on extensive military experience to explore how technological advancements and leadership effectively address current and emerging cybersecurity challenges.

We delve into Skinner's distinguished career at the U.S. Department of Defense, spanning several decades. Skinner discusses leade... Read more

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Rebecca Knight

>> Hello everyone, and welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Axonius Adapt '25 here in Dallas, Texas. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, sitting alongside my co-host and analyst, Rob Strechay. You know, one of the things that's really striking to me, being here, is talking about cybersecurity as this obviously very exceedingly technical topic. But there is also a lot of it that is about people.

Rob Strechay

>> Yeah.

Rebecca Knight

>> It's about leading everyone in the right direction.

Rob Strechay

>> Yeah, I mean, the complexity can't be handled alone. And I think, again, how do you make it easier for those people? Because they're just inundated with data, and data points, and that's not getting any simpler. And there's more and more technologies coming out every day.

Rebecca Knight

>> Exactly. And with that, I would like to introduce our next guest. He is Bob Skinner of Skinner's Strategies, also an operational technologist and perpetual optimist. I liked how you describe yourself on LinkedIn, that's your job title, so. Welcome, Bob, to theCUBE.

Rob Strechay

>> Thank you. Glad to be here.

Rebecca Knight

>> So you are a retired lieutenant general, and you've had a long, impressive career in the military, spanning Navy, Air Force, with experience in space, cyber, IT, and communications. Talk a little bit about your experiences, and how that has shaped your approach to leadership.

>> Yeah, well, thank you. I'll tell you, straight out of high school, I joined the Navy. So I graduated in May, came in in August, and then five years later I joined the Air Force. And 40 years later I was in charge of an organization that's 20,000 personnel, about $12 billion worth of resources, and our job was to secure and protect the Department of Defense networks, as well as providing a lot of IT capabilities. So if you think about that, the United States has the most IP addresses, China has the second most, and the DOD has the third most. So that attack surface is huge, and so I've gone from delivering mail in the Pentagon, to being part of a world-class team defending those DOD networks. And everything in between.

Rob Strechay

>> Yeah, I mean I think you look at it and the sheer size and complexity of the Department of Defense, and you were with DISA and all of that, so people will know it from that perspective. What do you think of, from a perspective of like you said, the scale was just so huge. When you're going and putting in standards, and helping people come along with you for the ride, how do you convince them to come along for the ride, and really help join those together? Because they're not all in your organization. You have to work across organizations, and I think a lot of people watching back at home, will see that their organizations actually mirror that in a microcosm.

>> Yes. The first thing you got to talk about is the threat. I don't think people across the country really understand the threat that we are under. If you're in the DC area, or if you're around military bases and stuff, you kind of see it more. But I don't think everyone sees it. And I will tell you, it is... The People's Republic of China is focused on being the world order. They don't want today's international world order. They want it to be them at the top, and everything surrounding that. And they will do whatever it takes, at some point in time in the future, to make that happen. Which will impact every single person's quality of life, and their way of life, in the United States. Whether you're overseas, or not. And so, I think you start with the threat. And you really see it with what they're trying to do, right? It's not just intellectual property theft. It is about hitting the hearts and the minds of the people, influencing them, but also they are targeting our critical infrastructure and putting in implants to be able to exploit at the time and place of their choosing. Not right now, but time and place of their choosing. So while you may not see it today, it's there, and it's coming. So you start with the threat. The second piece is, we can't do it alone. So no organization can do it alone, you are all part of this big ecosystem. And so within the DOD, that's what we tried to do is, we'd break it up into 45 different areas to where everyone, right standards, everyone's part of the same team, and we help each other out. We have the right partnerships in place, we leverage the right technology, the processes and the procedures, and have the right people. But bringing all that together is... If they're invested in buying in, then it's pretty easy. And then you have, what's your mechanism to hold accountable these organizations that are part of this worldwide organization, and how do you hold yourself accountable? Because in my presentation today, at the middle of our puzzle pieces was accountability, and that's the most important thing in my eyes. Is, you got to look in the mirror and hold yourself accountable for what's required of you, and what people are expecting from you, and what's needed. But you also need how to hold others accountable. So what's your audit mechanism? What is your validation mechanism that says they're aligned, and we're all moving in the same direction?

Rebecca Knight

>> One of the things that you just said, that was really striking to me, is that there is going to be an attack. Because despite the rising frequency and sophistication of incursions, we've not yet had sort of the big one, the Pearl Harbor of a cybersecurity event. When you are thinking about the massive threat that we are facing from China, do you think other organizations quite understand it? I mean, as you said, the folks in Washington do, do grasp the severity of this. But when you talk to a private industry and other organizations, how much do they understand the extent of what we could be possibly dealing with here?

>> I think if those who are really looking, and it could impact their business and or their mission and or their function, they know. And they see it. If it hasn't impacted you or affected you, and you're not truly in the cybersecurity business where you are getting information on the threat, then you don't know as much. So I think part of this is the strategic messaging, is how do you truly message to where people can go, "Ah. That makes sense. While it may not have happened to me yet, it's happened to my neighbor, or it's happened somewhere else," and I think that's what we really got to... How do we message the threat, and how it will impact at some point in time. Now, again, I hope that nothing ever happens. I hope that when President Xi looks out his window and looks across the landscape and says, "Not today," and closes it, and goes on. That'd be great. Let's stay in competition. But we've got to be prepared for something more, like crisis or conflict.

Rob Strechay

>> Yeah, I mean, I think again, it was just announced this morning that Volt Typhoon was in one of the Massachusetts utilities companies for the last 300 days or something like that, where just, didn't even know it was there. Or even, it might've been over a year, in there to that point. Do you see, when you were working in the government, how did you also look at the public-private partnership that goes on with that? Because you have CISA and others out there, that are doing some of that. How did that work from your perspective?

>> It all plays together, right? Because we're all part of this connected world, and you have to know what's going on in the public sector. You have to know what's going on in the private sector. And I will tell you, the department for our national security depends on the partnerships between the public and private. And you can bring academia into it, you can bring our labs into it. All of them have to play together to make sure that we are successful. So that's where you've got to know what's going on. And where you can help, then, let's help. Where commercial companies can help the department, and where commercial companies can help each other. At the end of the day, we all benefit. What doesn't work is if China is, the People's Republic of China, if they're into these networks, then that's helping them not us. And so, we want to be at a position of advantage over the People's Republic of China.

Rebecca Knight

>> You talked about having the right kinds of partnerships. You talked about truly grasping the threat. You also talked about the culture of accountability, and how important that is to be holding team members accountable, but also yourself accountable. How, as a leader, do you cultivate that in your organization?

>> You have to have the different processes and procedures in place. So for example, one of the things that we do in the military is called debriefs. Whether it's a mission, whether it's just a function, whether it's an action. You get everybody in a room, you take your pride off to the side, and shut the door. And you truly get after what's the root cause. If something went great, then what do we learn from it to make sure that it continues. If something didn't go right, then let's figure out what happened, and if it was a mistake then you hold the person accountable. Now, we don't want to be Draconian, and we don't want to crush people because, mistakes happen. In fact, we learn most from our mistakes. But if you make a mistake repeatedly, then you got to be held accountable, because you have other people who are there watching and going, "Wait a minute. They're not holding them accountable. Why do I want to be part of an organization that is accepting of less than stellar, less-than standards?" And so that's where the accountability comes in. But you don't want to be Draconian, but you really want to understand what the root cause is, because you want to prevent it in the future. So that's the culture that you want to get to.

Rob Strechay

>> So I think, again, being here at Axonius, and talking to some people as we munched on some food here, over lunch. One of the interesting things, and it seems like everybody has this, is data chaos and how they're trying to handle that. How did you deal with data chaos? Because I mean, again, like you said, 45 different organizations, plus your organization, trying to help and work with this. How did you handle that?

>> Not well. Is that a good answer?

Rob Strechay

>> No, an honest answer. Yeah.

>> So we have some amazing individuals within our organization. I would say the individuals with the technology can be better, and the technology needs to be more simplified, more simple, whatever the word is. We need to make technology simple, so that our people can be more proficient at a faster pace, and really take full advantage of all these capabilities that are out there. And the technology has to be integrated. One of the biggest shortfalls, I think, across commercial, public, and private, across the department, is understanding. Situational understanding of everything that is going on. Well, it's very hard for one individual to have a good understanding of everything that's going on, so that's where you need technology to be able to sift through all of this data, to sift through the chaos, to bring an understanding of what the environment is really like, what the threat is, and are you in a position of advantage or not? One of the things that I always ask when I walked into our ops center was, "Are we better today than yesterday? Is the adversary at more advantage today than yesterday? Or are we more advantaged today than yesterday?" And if any of those are yes, then why? And if the adversary has gained a little bit, because I always say, "We're in a position of advantage, because we're still the best." If they've gained a little bit, then what are we doing to move them back, and regain our position? And oh, by the way, not just regain, but go further.

Rebecca Knight

>> You mentioned that technology is what's needed to be able to see across the silos, and be able to improve visibility. I'm imagining that that technology is AI, that you're talking about. AI and automation. Can you describe a little bit more about how those can be applied effectively?

>> I would say, to me, the biggest thing is basic blocking and tackling of technology. Let's put AI to the side for a second. We've got all the technology that we already have, has to be configured correctly, has to be working, and it has to be optimal. Because one thing you've got to make sure you understand is, is the technology operating the way it's supposed to? If it's not, you got a problem. Now let's bring AI to the fold. How can you leverage AI to make that technology better to solve a problem? The worst thing I hear, not the worst thing, one of the worst things I hear is, "Well, let's just bring AI to the fold. AI will fix this. AI will fix that." To me, it's what problem you're trying to solve, and then let's bring AI and technology to solve that problem, and then solve the next problem, and then solve the next problem.

Rob Strechay

>> In fact, we congratulated Dean, because it's the first keynote that I've been to in a long time where AI was not part of the keynote, knowing that there's AI under the hood, and that's how... What we would call traditional AI, not this ChatGPT and LLM-

>> Generative AI....

Rob Strechay

>> type stuff, and the generative AI. but when you look at this, and you look at solving real world issues and problems, how are you helping people, or how were you helping them, prioritize? Because to me, a lot of it has to do with the prioritization. And I think Dean hit on this in his keynote portion, where he was talking about all of these signals, and this is why we're going this direction with the product. Because people need to simplify the signals, get the noise... And we talk about it. How do you get the signal out of the noise?

>> To me, and Rebecca, you mentioned this earlier, operational technologists. We've all got to be operational technologists. So, understand the operations, and understand technology, and you bring those together. And then you say, "Which ones of these together really affects the mission, and our national security," or whatever little piece of the pie that you have, from your company standpoint. And then you prioritize based on that. So understanding the mission is what's going to enable you to understand what the priority is, and where you need fixing first, where you need to get better than in other places. And then you can bring the technology to go, "Okay, AI, where can you help us?" Because I will tell you, people are afraid of AI, a lot of people are afraid of AI. I'm not. You can't be. Because People's Republic of China, they want to be the AI expert, the center of excellence for artificial intelligence, the center of action for encryption, for quantum computing. Well, so do we. And I would rather have us than them, and so, let's bring AI to the fold in that manner.

Rebecca Knight

>> Well, you describe yourself too, as a perpetual optimist too. And I'm wondering what role your optimism plays in your leadership, and cultivating a high-performing team and culture within that team? Particularly when the threats are so enormous.

>> Yes. Would you rather work with an Eeyore, or would you rather work with a Woody, for example? Who's always, optimist. To me, it's find your passion, right? If people find their passion, and you as a leader can help them find their passion, a lot of that's through optimism. I'm a firm believer, and I think General Colin Powell had this quote of, "Perpetual optimism is a true force multiplier." And so, being able to walk in, and if you're optimistic, it doesn't mean you're unrealistic, right? Because there are challenges, and there are dangers in the world, but if you're an optimist and you're helping them achieve their passion, and they're optimal? Then I think it's just, it breeds passion, and it breeds innovation. It breeds initiative. So to me, the foundation is helping people find their passion. And a lot of that's through your own optimism.

Rebecca Knight

>> Well, how do you balance that with... So, cultivating the individual, and what their hopes and dreams are for their own careers, and how they find meaning in their jobs. But then, you also want to balance that with team cohesion, too. So how do you -

>> It's why... Sorry....

Rebecca Knight

>> team cohesion, and making sure that everyone, as you say, is accountable to each other and helping each other out? So what is the secret sauce there, in terms of making sure that you are striking that balance?

>> Yes. I don't think it's an either-or. I think if people have their passion, then being part of that team just, to me, it enhances their passion. And to me, it's all about the mission, at the end of the day. It's all about, what are you trying to do? What problem are you trying to solve? And are you part of something greater than yourself? Because most people want to be part of that. Most people want to be part of solving challenges, solving those big issues. And I think helping them be the best of themselves only helps the team out. Even more. Now, you do have some individuals that are more focused on themselves, and there's different ways of holding them accountable to the team as well as themselves, but I don't see it as an either-or. I think it's, you can work both of them, and it's not a balancing act.

Rob Strechay

>> Yeah, I mean, I think that's great advice. In fact, I loved that leadership thing, because again, I'm very much the optimist myself. And the teams I've led, same thing. It's like you try find, like you said, get in the room, put your ego to the side, figure out the problems, move forward. You learn more off of those bad things that happen than the good things. The successes are great, because then you know it works. But when you look at, and you could give any piece of advice to those sitting out there on the other side of the camera, about cybersecurity and how to really advance their awareness and their posture. What is one piece of advice you'd give them?

>> Invest in yourself. The greatest investment that you can do, is invest in yourself. Whether that's through certifications, whether that's through reading, whether that... And it doesn't have to be just cybersecurity books, right? Leadership, teamwork, I mean, all these things that come together to be able to form teams. I think that's, if you focus on... Again, don't be selfish, but take care of yourself, invest in yourself. Because then, you can take care of others. Because how many times do you see a leader who hasn't taken care of themselves, leading others? It doesn't work well. So take care of yourself, and that will enable you to be able to take care of others. And then to me, find your passion. If you can find your passion, you are so much more enthusiastic, and so much more willing to drive in and be innovative, have the initiative for success.

Rebecca Knight

>> Bob, I hope you write a book.

>> I'm actually going to.

Rebecca Knight

>> All right-

Rob Strechay

>> Excellent.

>> Yeah.

Rebecca Knight

>> Well, this is advice for the ages. So Bob, thank you so much for coming on. theCUBE. A pleasure having you on.

>> Thank you very much.

Rebecca Knight

>> I learned a lot.

Rebecca Knight

>> It's a pleasure to be here.

Rebecca Knight

>> Yes. Excellent. I'm Rebecca Knight for Rob Strechay. Stay tuned for more of theCUBE's coverage of Axonius Adapt 2025. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in enterprise tech news and analysis.