SC25 | Lauren Witter, CoolFlow a Divison of Omni Services & Amanda Bryant, Danfoss Power Solutions

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Lauren Witter

Vice President of Sales

CoolFlow a Divison of Omni Services

Amanda Bryant

Global Product Application Engineering Manager

Danfoss Power Solutions

play_circle_outline Discussion of the "plumbing layer" in data center systems for efficient fluidics.

play_circle_outline Revolutionizing AI Infrastructure: The Critical Role of Advanced Liquid Cooling Systems and Innovative Strategies in Evolving Chip Designs

play_circle_outline Transforming Data Centers: The Shift to Liquid Cooling for Enhanced Performance and the Importance of Cleanliness and Fluid Compatibility

play_circle_outline The impact of high-density racks on cooling systems and the challenges they present.

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Lauren Witter, CoolFlow a Divison of Omni Services & Amanda Bryant, Danfoss Power Solutions

Lauren Witter

Vice President of Sales CoolFlow a Divison of Omni Services

Amanda Bryant

Global Product Application Engineering Manager Danfoss Power Solutions

In this interview from SC25, Lauren Witter, vice president of sales at the CoolFlow division of Omni Services, and Amanda Bryant, global product application engineer manager at Danfoss Power Solutions, join theCUBE’s John Furrier and Jackie McGuire to unpack the critical "plumbing layer" of AI infrastructure. As high-density computing drives a massive shift from air to liquid cooling, Witter and Bryant discuss the engineering nuances required to keep pace with rapid chip innovation. They highlight the importance of fluidics, filtration and cleanliness in prot... Read more

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What is the significance of the plumbing layer in data center systems? add

What changes have occurred in the cooling strategies and designs for data centers and servers in the past year or two? add

What is the importance of infrastructure and cleanliness in the context of transitioning from air to liquid air and then to liquid to liquid for electronic components? add

What factors are considered when evaluating high-density cooling systems in data centers? add

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Lauren Witter, CoolFlow a Divison of Omni Services & Amanda Bryant, Danfoss Power Solutions

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John Furrier

>> Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage here at Supercomputing 2025. I'm John Furrier. Jackie McGuire here from theCUBE team. Unpacking the AI infrastructure with all those large- scale systems gets very hot. Cooling is really in this year again, but at a whole nother level. And we're going to talk about the plumbing layer. We've got two great guests. Lauren Witter, vice president of sales, the cool flow division of Omni Services, and Amanda Ryan, global product application engineer manager, Danfoss Power Solutions. Thanks for coming on. Good to see you. Lauren, again, third time see you.

Lauren Witter

>> Great to see you. - .

Jackie McGuire

>> Would you like some type of special swag for alumni?

John Furrier

>> Little challenge coin when you hit a certain number. This has been a cool show from a coolability standpoint because power and cooling has always been in discussion, but cooling, moving from air cool to liquid cool, all kinds of engineering around these data centers. Jackie and I have been geeking out all week around some of the nuances involved, and you guys are in the middle of it. What is this plumbing layer narrative? Because I think we are seeing the co-designing of these systems. Lauren, tell us what this plumbing layer is.

Lauren Witter

>> Yeah, absolutely. So we joke, a lot of people today have been saying this is more of a plumbing show than it is a performance computing show. And I think the importance of cooling these racks and all this fluidics, how do you bring it into the data center, into the racks, back out, it's really exciting. I think people are realizing this is the future, this is how we're going to scale, and some brilliant companies like Amanda and Danfoss here helping lead the way.

Jackie McGuire

>> It's crazy to see just in the last, say, year or two years how drastically the strategies and designs for cooling data centers and servers and power supplies and things like that in general have changed. So for you, over last year to this year, is there a difference that you've noticed?

Lauren Witter

>> Absolutely. I mean, the speed is still there, probably even faster. We joke about the speed of light, and I think this market's faster than that, but you're seeing a lot more conversation now about scalability, cleanliness standards, a lot of partnerships. Some of our colleagues, we joked about how much has changed since we were here just one year ago.

John Furrier

>> The power solutions really kind of play a critical role. The mechanical layer is a huge part of it, Amanda. Talk about the nuances there and why this is so important. Because we've been hearing it's not just preventing the failure, frying up GPUs and systems, but also the power efficiencies that come on throughput. It's a huge thing.

Amanda Bryant

>> Absolutely. And the transition from air to liquid air, and now to liquid to liquid, the infrastructure is critical to avoid leaks on those critical electronic components. So for us, we want to make sure that we're protecting those cold plates and those chips to be at an optimal power and reduced heat level. So from my perspective, all of our products, particularly in Danfoss Power Solutions are after filtration. So cleanliness, as Lauren mentioned, is huge for us to not hinder the performance of the electronic components at that server level.

John Furrier

>> How do you guys keep up? Because one of the themes every year, and we're seeing it past two years, just the accelerated pace of change that's like on the chip side and Jensen's like always saying in a video, "Oh yeah, we put our roadmap out three years. " People are moving super fast. The kind of physical mechanical layer or plumbing, is it move at that cadence? What's the innovations? How do you keep up?

Amanda Bryant

>> Absolutely. It's just as fast. They're qualifying new chips, they're updating their procedures every day, and even on a monthly cadence and we're having to do the same thing with designs because of those shifts that they're making. So it's really important for us to move just as fast, and scalability of manufacturing is huge to be on point with that. So that's a very big focus for us in the last few years.

Jackie McGuire

>> As you scale, one of the key things that I hear from virtually every data center operator and maintainer that I talk to is concerns about supply chain, because as we've tried to... You can't really 10x the people who do the welding overnight. It takes time. So how do you think about supply chain and controlling the quality of the supply chain, and being able to efficiently and safely scale that over the next couple years?

Amanda Bryant

>> Absolutely. Well, particularly for us at Danfoss, we protect that through a rigorous process for qualifying suppliers. So we don't just let anyone in for that, but at the same time, you do have to balance that with that speed. So for us, we have to protect that design element and make sure that we're protecting that supply chain, but broaden it. We've had to broaden it quite a bit in order for us to really be at scale.

Jackie McGuire

>> And you guys have done a bunch of work around standards, around kind of setting standards, because that's one of the tough things right now when you enter one of these explosive growth phases in an industry, standards are really what make that growth sustainable. It's scalable, but we're all running at warp speed right now, trying to keep up. So what have you done around that? How have you guys partnered together to address the lack of standards that we have right now?

Amanda Bryant

>> Absolutely. So OCP is a big part of that with standardization, so we are very active in participating with that. So they're creating a lot of standards for the industry, which is very beneficial for us as a manufacturer, as well as for the industry to advance quicker with that speed. So for us to participate in that and give a voice to the fluid conveyance that we have the expertise in has been very valuable for us to show that expertise, but also keep the industry moving forward with that.

Jackie McGuire

>> They just had their conference as well. I heard there were some really, really interesting things that came out of that conference. That was pretty recent, a couple weeks ago.

Amanda Bryant

>> Yeah, a couple weeks ago in October.

Jackie McGuire

>> It feels like it was a year ago, but I'm pretty sure it was like a month ago.

John Furrier

>> It's been a crazy- -

Amanda Bryant

>> obsessions, but right now.

John Furrier

>> It's a crazy market. Lauren, I've hearing people say about liquid cooling, it's the wild west of liquid cooling. And you mentioned cleanliness, so quality and testing. Talk about the importance of some of the things you're doing. It is kind of a wild west. It's the chaos, rain, rain, and the chaos because the growth is there, the demand is there. How do people figure out what's better? You guys talk about cleanliness. Talk about the quality of the testing, what goes behind it?

Lauren Witter

>> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's where the relationship with Danfoss has been key. We've been a core hydraulics partner for almost 50 years. I wasn't there back then, hopefully you can tell, but... And back then, the approach to hydraulics is a system, and I think Danfoss got that so right, as did Omni. So we've brought that same approach. So working together collaboratively, understanding they're on the leading edge, we're on the value-added integration edge. So setting standards as far as how we test, everything that leaves our facility is tested, and constantly benchmarking. We know that things are changing quickly. In a lot of standard markets in fluidics, you're doing ambient testing, you're not doing application testing. So that partnership together so that it's not just how it sits static in our facility, it's how it operates out in the wild. That's what we're doing.

>> Amanda, talk about that quality pieces.

John Furrier

>> The fluid network components, they're changing. You've got pressure, cleanliness, leak integrity, and compatibility between immersion, and then direct to chip.

Amanda Bryant

>> Absolutely. - Explain why those dynamics are happening.

John Furrier

>> Is it just market forces? And then what do you guys look at when you look at all those components?

Amanda Bryant

>> Yeah, fluid compatibility is critical for everything to function correctly. Again, when we kind of go back to cleanliness, if our products are meeting the right requirements, they're going to break down, and that's going to ultimately get to the cold plates, leading to dysfunction at the facility. So for us, it's very important to be incorporated into that, and that is why we actually lean on value-added integrators. As a manufacturer, we already talked about it, but we need to be at scale in terms of production. Therefore, we do have to leverage value-added integrators to do that testing to make sure that the products are qualified at the end. One, they're actually put together, kitted, like Omni's doing for us.

>> One of the big trends obviously we're hearing

John Furrier

>> with all the systems, whether it's Nvidia, is that density is huge. Now you've got these high-density racks, and you have high-density cooling systems. Is that like a whole other animal? I mean, how do you guys look at that? Because depending on the scope, could be one monster data center, it could be a smaller facility. How do you look at that high- density cooling system component?

Amanda Bryant

>> Yeah, we're seeing where there is a level of consistency across the products that are being used. So that is helping us a little bit in terms of, it skews of product a little bit. But for us, it's really about high flow, low pressure drop. Those are the things that we have to focus on from a product performance standpoint, but that's pretty consistent across the facilities that we're integrating with. Is there... Sorry.

>> standard. So I want to just follow up.

John Furrier

>> OCP is more of a physical kind of rack configuration. Is there standards in testing and cleanliness, or is that more of a wild west piece?

>> So there are some standards within OCP to do

Amanda Bryant

>> that within the different work streams, but I would say there are more so a baseline for the industry to use. OCP is meant for everyone to kind of catch up and be at the same level. So there is a baseline of standards, but that's not going to change where hyperscalers, for example, are going to have different testing requirements. That's not going away just because of OCP. That is again where value-added integrators-

>> They have their own OCP.

Amanda Bryant

>> To a degree, yes. - A data center in a high,

Jackie McGuire

>> dry climate needs much different things than a data center

John Furrier

>> in, say, Florida, a hot, wet climate. And so there's also only so far you can standardize. So some of it has to be more at the industry level where we don't set a standard, but we all agree that this is the goal, and this is how things should be done. So I actually have a question for you. Let's say I'm managing a data center. So you have tons of experience in terms of vetting suppliers and partners and things like that. Do you have recommendations for people about how to go about, I guess, vetting your suppliers and vendors, and holding them accountable? Is there a strategy you use to vet the supply chain as it's coming on?

Amanda Bryant

>> Absolutely. So for our supply chain, we do have that process, but also with value-added integrators, for ourselves at Danfoss, we have requirements that they have to meet in order to even sell, or to kit our products together and really be a value-added integrator for us with our product line specifically. So cleanliness standards, testing standards that we're all talking about, those are things where we actually set our own minimums so that our performance is being met of the component level, and then when they're at assembly level, it's that same standard when they're going out into the field. Because my team is also going out there and field servicing. Well, the more value-added integrators that are qualified, the better work position we are in that my team doesn't have to go about as much to actually service because those are functioning well.

Jackie McGuire

>> And you can make that data available. So if I'm running a data center, could I ask you, "Hey, how do you go about vetting these people? Can you give me some of the qualifications? " Are those questions that people should be asking?

Amanda Bryant

>> Yeah, absolutely. They can come and ask us. So again, it is those quality and testing standards that we really hone in on. And then scalability is another piece of it. You do have to have that factored in, even at the value-added integrator level.

Jackie McGuire

>> I think we've seen the kind of secondary, but then also tertiary risk at facilities is that you have your own vendors that you work with, but then they also have a bunch of vendors and contractors. So I think oftentimes people don't go that second layer deep of, okay, we've vetted you, but how do you vet the people that you work with? So it sounds like you guys have really-

>> And we deal with that a lot at Omni.

Lauren Witter

>> I give Danfoss a lot of credit. They really led the charge. I think everybody right in the space where we live wants to understand this great market, and the growth that comes with it, but there's a lot of risk dangers, and Amanda, I think personally, led the charge to come out to partners like ours, be very collaborative, and then kind of control that network. So I'm sure it would've been much easier to just broad the brush and put it in the general catalog, but they did a great job, and I think that's a real value to show how serious we are about fluid conveyance.

>> I love the fluid network concept

John Furrier

>> because it is a network as well, a lot of mechanical devices, but then you got the chips. At the end of the day, this is the plumbing factory, the sausage factory watching it being made. You guys are doing a good job. The question will then come down to, what's the bottom line on performance when you think about the bottlenecks that are in? So I guess a question for both of you, what are the bottlenecks? Is it the supply chains, is it the standards, is it the quality? Where do you guys see the pressure points-

>> Labor. - ... so to speak?

Lauren Witter

>> Labor. - From my perspective, it's supply chain

Amanda Bryant

>> because we're in an industry that's very used to coding,

John Furrier

>> that's what they're focused on.

Amanda Bryant

>> I'm focused on metals and hoses. You can't change that quite as fast, so supply chain is absolutely critical for us to function well and to support the industry well.

>> You can't just spin up a new hose factory in the cloud?

Lauren Witter

>> Get a three . - No, not exactly.

Jackie McGuire

>> You can't just duplicate couplings?

Lauren Witter

>> We could ask that a lot,

Amanda Bryant

>> but yeah-

Jackie McGuire

>> Ctrl C, Ctrl V.

Lauren Witter

>> You use AI, right? But I agree with Amanda.

Jackie McGuire

>> I mean, for us it's exactly the same thing. I think it's hard because you watched the industry evolve. Two years ago, we had to make it fit the coupling configurations that were available. But how do we challenge that? And I think what Danfoss has done a great job is, they're engineering today what we're going to need three to six months from now, and they've built a global supply chain. It's a unique market because there's a global presence, but there's a lot of regional focus. So they've done a wonderful job supporting the supply chain for us.

Jackie McGuire

>> And physically you're dealing with a lot more. And right now this is top of mind. From a trade policy perspective, you're dealing with raw materials, so it's much different than writing code in that you're dealing with things like metals and things where you need to be able to look 18, 24 months ahead of time to know that you're going to have the alloys that you need, the rubber, all of those things. I imagine that with a lack of clarity on the costs of those things and availability, that must make managing that component really difficult.

Amanda Bryant

>> Yeah, it is a difficult to challenge, but at the same time, at Danfoss, I would say we are bold in our supply chain strategy. We want to forecast well above, at times, what our customers are telling us they need. And our value-added integrators do support that as well. We have stocking minimums for them as well, but at the same time, they're also trying to be prepared. So we do tend to go a little bit more heavy on the inventory of raw material, as well as end product, just so that we do have... We are prepared because there is an ebb and flow to that volume that you might have a big drop, and that you need to be prepared for it.

>> Yeah, it seems like every three days there's some

Jackie McGuire

>> new thing to be aware of with -

>> It's a strategic mission-critical components.

John Furrier

>> Clearly the show here, the system's got big money behind them. I guess my question for both of you is, where's the biggest focus area from an optimization or risk management? Because nobody wants downtime. Is it in the design? Is it in the installation, or the testing? How would you rank, or are all three are kind of in play, or are there others?

Amanda Bryant

>> Yeah, I would say quality and testing are the biggest ones that we have to focus on. So there are a lot of testing differentiators that we have, depending on who we're trying to support. So that is the biggest variable for us to try and standardize and have, okay, what's the bare minimum that we... Or not bare minimum. What can we do to test and say, okay, we're fully vetted for everyone? So that's what we're trying to emphasize in the industry. So we're calling out a standard that works, more so than having to modify test equipment every single time for a different customer.

John Furrier

>> I heard a story. Jackie and I were talking with Dave Olavi, who just left to go to the airport. I won't say the name of the company, but there was an installation, and the hoses were sitting outside because the contractors thought, hoses? They're outside. So, okay, this is to Jackie's point about labor, installation.

>> . - Yeah.

John Furrier

>> How's that going? Because there's a big theme in the

Amanda Bryant

>> overall industry around skilled jobs like HVAC,

Lauren Witter

>> like traditional plumbing, so that you start to see new skills come in to know that... In this case, those are hoses for the rats. They're not the garden hose.

Lauren Witter

>> I'd say from our perspective, that's a big focus. We obviously want to understand and test the standards of where they're coming, and that's important. That's how we move fast. We can't test something while we're learning about the demand. I think what I love about this space, too, is the design. Early collaboration solves a lot of problems, but to your point, oftentimes products come from Danfoss to Omni, they then go to the market, and someone else is engaging with them, so making sure our traceability, our cleanliness is protected so that if somebody does do something in the field, leave them out back-

Jackie McGuire

>> You can prove that it wasn't you. - ... you know where to look for responsibility.

Lauren Witter

>> Dusty environment

John Furrier

>> in Arizona.

>> Exactly. - I got to say, so weird analogy,

Jackie McGuire

>> but I stopped going to this one coffee place

Lauren Witter

>> because one of the times that I was there waiting for my coffee, a dairy supplier pulled up, put a pallet on the corner, and it's Arizona, so it's 90 degrees. And I sat there enjoying my coffee for half-an- hour watching this pallet sit in the sun, and I could tell it was milk and other dairy, and I was like, wow, I am never getting coffee here again, because anybody who understands their supply chain should know that this pallet, maybe the cups in the boxes can sit in... but this pallet should not be out in 95 degrees.

Amanda Bryant

>> Yeah, absolutely. And just to re-emphasize what Lauren said, we're focused on scalability and product performance. That is where we lean on value-added integrators to really take that forward beyond when we are bringing that product out.

>> All right, final question. Obviously bringing that up,

John Furrier

>> but partnerships are critical. Knowing who's in your quote... won't say supply chain, but your partner chain is a value chain, some level, how important are partnerships, and how is the modern era of this kind of scale? What's different about the partnerships now than they were even five, 10 years ago?

Amanda Bryant

>> Absolutely. I mean, coming even from traditional hydraulics, we were giving the products to evaluated integrators, and that was the end of it from our end. And at this point, it really is about collaboration, given the testing requirements that we have. Again, Danfoss can't take on all of those. We need to mass produce. So that's really critical for us from a partnership standpoint.

Lauren Witter

>> 100% agree. I think partnerships in this market are everything. Coming from hydraulics, you didn't see a lot of collaboration in that market, and to see it here, and maybe it's because there's so much to go around, but it's everything. I think the relationship between our two organizations is why we can sit here with you today.

John Furrier

>> Lauren, I'll give you the final word. You're out in the field talking to customers. What's the pitch? What do the customers care about the most when you're out in front of your customers?

Lauren Witter

>> Yeah. I'd say it's good end feeling, right? It's that they're going to get a good, reliable product. It can scale, and you've got a great partnership behind you.

John Furrier

>> All right, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Have a great show. Thanks for sharing.

Amanda Bryant

>> Thanks very much. - I'm John Furrier

John Furrier

>> with Jackie McGuire here at theCUBE breaking down all the action, the strategic nature of plumbing, cooling the hoses that make the machines run and hum like a well-oiled machine. Of course, that's what we want out of these AI systems. We're doing our part to be cool here in theCUBE. Thanks for watching.